Violence is endemic on this plane,,,,and humans have climbed the ladder of incarnations...bringing tendencies with them. These tendencies have to be cleansed hence Daya and Ahimsa or resistance to harm...in order to progress to Moksha.
Billions upon billions of animals are killed for food every year...some come back as humans with resentment to humans for cutting off their lives and their progress.. They don't come to provide food but to work out their own development. So violence is building up in humans, also eating meat humans take into their bodies the vibration of the animal, and what it has developed and its death throes. This is why yogis proscribe meat....
Also a large thought form is forming on the subtle...a thoughtform of violence, fear and pain, that can affect the minds of people on the planet and cause wars and massacres and violence of all kinds. This thoughtform is built up by all the violent acts of wars, killing animals, priests sacrificing humans, and even violence in families.........we all own these thoughts...in our species mind and other levels of mind...All minds are connected..........so like a quantum particle it can behave correspondingly in one part of the universe and the other at the same time....and that is below mind which is more subtler than the most subtle.
So think about what you do with your food and mental vibrations...If you claim you are on the spiritual path then you should be an aspiring human....a vegetarian and non violent..........Think about the planet and the beings progressing on it....as Buddha says 'every sentient being has been every other sentient beings mother at one time'....
Wednesday, January 26, 2011
Thursday, January 06, 2011
Aphorisms Tony
The tree of our life has many leaves/vasanas...almost as many as lives. For each vasana can cause a 'life' by itself. Through enquiry and meditation we shake the tree, until no leaves are left, then we are left with the trunk until it drops...dried and useless.
Human Love or Attachment to people and objects is not formed in the object of affection but is held only in the mind of the beholder...Even the images we see are not in real time but past time..So the attachment and pain is within ourselves.
I think that moment when one realises that one is actually a stranger in a stranger world...dawns....Then that is the first step on the world to liberation, from mind and madness...
The whole universe exists in the universal mind....only...our minds are just bundles of thoughts..any thought...is an impediment...belief or not.
Yoga or Juj-union is breaking the connection to emotions, grief and joy. The ego is stunned by emotional pain yet at the same time it is satisfied with the validation of its illusory existence, to itself....Hence the wallowing in griefs and self-pity....
Diksha or initiation-Saktipat is better given in silence -mouna..as it is superior to touch, sound etc...........as Dakshinamurthi.....according to Ramana.
There is a place for non realised teachers...it is a start for neophytes. However there is no place for those claiming to be Muktas when they are not. The consider themselves the end so the seeker doesn't continue evolving...
One does not have to understand the molecular structure of water to step out of the pool....one has to just want to step out!, even if there is a ladder to climb.
There can be no fear if one knows one is not a person..
THROUGH THE VICISSITUDES OF LIFE THERE IS ONLY ONE GROUND, ONE CONSTANT AND THAT IS LOVE.
WHEN ONE HAS LEARNED THAT THERE ISN'T ANYTHING TO LEARN THEN ONE HAS LEARNED EVERYTHING. THERE IS NO 'PERSONAL GOD' DOING ANYTHING. Sakti-Consciousness is the 'I AM',Sadguru....Sakshin, or the Witness.
What is Love? Love is God...but what if there is no god as such? Love is the Sakti energy of Saguna Brahman. We are all the prana and karma but the scum on the pond prevents the reflection of sunlight...so we have mostly attachment not 'Love'.
Texts and scriptures are helpful and so is a Jnani as a living text. However ultimately they must be given up, and some never know them at all but know them-SELF.
The San people of the Kalahari desert in South Africa have a saying...'somewhere there is a dream dreaming us'...leakey.
Without teachers and texts they have penetrated to und...erstanding the unreality of even Saguna Brahman/Self....
Mathru Sri Sarada's statement that 'the futility of human existence'...points to the Buddha's Dukkha or all is suffering or potential suffering...The futility is that it won't get any better as long as the dog has a bent hind leg...only solution-Moksha.
If one can penetrate the process of attachment one can ease one's sadhana or practice...The process is 'bonding' or creating Vasanas/wants/needs/desires, that are projected externally but are internal as they survive the demise of the object.
The objects,,demise and grief is caused....ie the letting go of 'attachment vibrations' which are now superfluous..
The pain comes from the fact we have developed and intense attachment to the extent that they become part of our own psyche...and therefore are painful to let go....bad or good.
It is a process of first identifying as a body then by extension all that the body is attached or averse to.
Anger is always frustrated desire..but if we can channel all into the one desire for liberation and then give that up..Giving up the final frustration of bondage...
Humans do not look forward....the look back to the joys between the two griefs then project to try and create a world of remembered joys......Hence strengthening the trap of illusion and delusion.
The truth is the silence between two thoughts....earthly joy comes between two griefs....humans like to remember the joys...that way they fool themselves with attachment.
Once one progressed along 'The Path' one sees the futility of religion..it may be good to be born in one but it is bad to die in one...as one hasn't learned..
Dukha or suffering as Buddha talked of in the 4 noble truths,,,not only encompasses actual suffering but past and future suffering as well. So even pleasure and joy carry with them the possibility and inevitability of suffering -that is Everything is Dukha...
There are times and tides, in one's life, when taken at the full flood leads on to progress towards realisation. Usually they are painful or a recognising of futility in human existence.
Although the herd animal and shoal fish jostle, bump, fight, they still don't leave the group..or its thinking..Humans do the same they are afraid to leave thinking/mind behind...the herd is more secure...with all its travails...
Humans are afraid to die whilst still living...for realisation the ego must die forever..Ordinary death is where the ego leaves temporarily but sitll exists...Realisation is where the ego dies itself...and the process has to be experienced.
Love is the energy the pranic ground...it is not emotional sentiment or attachment. The mystery of attachment is the mind goes out and attaches to something,,and then that becomes part of the beholder's psyche. It becomes an owned pleasure and the ego takes delight in the pleasure..
This is why it is so difficult to separate from one's attachments as they have become part of oneself...as a child, pet or partner or object. These are vasanas and prevent the progress of losing the ego...No matter how non dual your mind thinks it is....it has a thief in the palace...
There has always been localised consciousness in illusion,,,but the ego of man is the reactive defensive mechanism of the animal totally expanded and distorted by the mind.In other words it really has no foundation even at that level and is illusion within illusion.
When you serve others you serve yourself...it is to weaken and dilute your own ego..,karma yoga,.except if you have the idea 'what a good helper I am'...as Jesus said the poor you will always have with you...Take the impossible impulse to change the planet and turn it around to change yourself --right out of here.
Belief is a lack of critical thinking....unless one has given ones ego over in True Bhakti.
When a person 'dies' the ego takes flight-the body becomes inert stiff and cold. Until it takes another 'body'. Similarly on realisation...the ego doesn't take flight but is destroyed....the body is in a similar ego-less death state...until the purified vijnanamaya kosa or universal takes over...All muktas have experienced this...
Sometimes it takes time to reactivate ...as it takes a baby to learn to walk and talk..This is due to the residual prarabda karma left in the body...the fan can be turned off but it still makes a few revolutions. Mathru Sri Sarada took some months..to function...others took less time, like Ramana or Maharaj....
Only human simians have a keen sense of humour, although other animals can laugh, because we instinctively know the ridiculousness of the human situation...only big egos take themselves seriously and they are mostly spiritual seekers.
The Self/Saguna and NirGuna are realises simultaneously once the vasanas and desires are cleared so to speak....Then according to Gaudapada it will be realised nothing ever happened at all...
Awareness has to be left behind for as Nir Guna is the truth what is there to be aware of and that would be dual anyway.
Post on Sadhana for moksha...
Swami Vidyaranya, in his 'Jivanmukti viveka' says that even with respect to those who attain Self-realization through the vichAra-mArga the realization takes place by means of a kShaNika-samAdhi , short term samadhis leading to full nitya samadhi alone.
So essentially what this is saying and is obvious is that no matter how much self enquiry we do .....samadhi is req'd as well,,,,it cant happen all in the mind...So in the end being in samadhi causes the final realisation because that is The Self...When we are in NirVikalpa we are The Self but when we can maintain it....It becomes Sahaja NirVikalpa Samadhi or Moksha.....
So nobody can get realisation without The Self/Guru or whatever..
I spent a good part of my life being clever with words...but I can tell that you words cannot talk of NirVikalpa or describe my sadhana..The operative word is Nir...as in NirVana or NirGuna etc..There is no 'knower' in that...the knower is at the Self or Saguna concept level...as is posited in the creation hymn of the Rig Veda..on whether Brahman knows or doesn't know.
.Ramana, Lakshmana, and all the Muktas have two things in common....
1. Only the Self...or Saguna concept can ultimately destroy the Ego...we cannot do it with our clever minds.
2. Vasanas...ie..tendencies, desires, attributes prevent final Sahaja NirVikalpa and these go back millions of lives and are not available to the conscious mind.Meditation helps in removing the vasanas.
They are like the scum on the pond or the dust on the mirror...the sun is shining all the time...but until the scum is removed from the surface of the pond it cannot reflect the sun..
As Lakshmana says the mind can take you to a false non-dual state that mimics realisation so to speak,,,Mathru Sri Sarada was in this state prior to realisation and even she thought she was liberated, but Lakshmana could see the ego, albeit only a shadow and subtle, and so he actually destroyed the ego so she could become realised. Otherwise at that time the ego was trying to kill the body and get another one...She went blue and cold in a death state, as do all muktas and it took quite some time for her to come back so to speak.
There are two gurus that are actually one.....1. The outer Guru...ie a mukta that is the pure emodied Self.
2. The Inner Guru which shines when all the vasanas are cleaned..
The Inner pulls the seeker and the outer pushes so to speak.
I cannot talk of NirVikalpa as it is not possible to have an opinion on it..that would be just word constructed opinions in the mind which is the problem in fact...I would not attempt to try and interpret the state of realised mukta...that would be the ultimate conceit and delusion of the ego...In the end result only the 'creator' of the ego illusion can remove it, as it is above mind....
he Sex drive vasana is incompatible with moksha as it is linear and expansive as the creation energy vasana...meditation and moksha are the opposite of this directly....they are a withdrawal of the senses to the source.....
All these people talking all this hypothetics and philosophy brought the tendencies and vasanas with them when the incarnated this time...They didn't just develop it in this life ----the obvious question is....if they brought it with them then it didn't give them realisation and it won't this time either....just whirlpools in the mind..only cleaning all those vasanas works.
Niz Maharaj says humans need oxygen, water and sex. Oxygen and water also food are for preservation....Sex is the outward creation impulse,.and one cannot get moksha with this outward impulse.Destruction comes from inertia and is impulses..
An illiterate 'primitive' can get moksha without intellectualisation..Somewhere there is a dream dreaming us...Ko San of Kalahari...Leakey.
It is only in the sounds of silence...that we are....
It is in the sounds of silence that the vasanas or burned up as prana is stronger than karma...of which it is constructed in illusion.
Nothing sounds more true and resonates with your mind, and comfort level more than the teachings of a fake.
Eloquent 'verbal non dualist' speak in the whirlpool of the conscious mind..leads nowhere but to rebirth unless deep meditation and removal of vasanas is done. The conscious mind is just the shine on the outer skin of the apple of mind..and leads only to rebirth.............people who speak like this brought it with them from a previous life.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cleansing of Vasanas is progressive and painful to human attachments...What we call love turns out to be attachments.....emotion and sentiment...of the lower mind..These are cleansed and many are not ready for that...do not ask for Grace if you cannot handle it...
Attachment is the base of existence...even the plants have it...it is actually a distortion of the 'All is one' feeling'...even animals grieve loss....everything wants to be whole...even if it is one thing at a time....this impulse is then misunderstood hence attachment occurs....the human ego individualises it to a relationship.
Words like 'awakening, awareness, now,.enlightenment, realisation' belong to The Self only and describe the qualities of Sat-Cit-Ananda. Unless one is a Mukta then all these word are just states of mind without all vasanas being cleared.
Due to attachment, children are essentially pet humans...but unlike pets they mature cause joy and pain and then want their own pet humans....large and small.
Attachment is a false version by the ego-jiva of what true Bhakti is...it is the innate desire to become the Sakti, that we are.We should love other beings for the Self's sake not our sake or it causes both joy and pain,,,,and not just bliss,,and peace.
The pain of separation from the Self caused by vasanas is what causes attachment to anything but...the Self for the Ego is in love with itself alone...
WE don't clean the Vasanas so we cannot see The Self so we look for the Self everywhere else...like looking for glasses which are already on one's head...we go outwards instead of inwards.
Even the attachment to false teachers and charlatans is part of this searching for what we already are.
Speech as opposed to telepathy used by the animals...and the silence of muktas arose due to a need to be untruthful, and have a deeper involvement in material. ~
It also has the effect of mechanising the mind due to speech, which leads to deeper involvement in the illusion of materiality...The frontal lobes are developed for this like a computer.
Most people don't want liberation they just want to know about it....and add it to spiritual materialism...It is a huge psychological break to negate all that is mind.
The non-mukta 'bait teachers' like all the neo advaitins, verbal non dualists, philosophers, are like earlier travelers on the road and they can help you, by the hand, on the journey...problem is when you get to the river neither of you can swim.
One way of telling whether there is a guru helping you is suffering and pain...you will find it comes karmically and then there is respite or a break before it starts or ends again....This is guru giving you only what you can bear and one time....
I was just thinking about my bio...all the so called bad things and all the so called good things I have done in my life are no secret...I own them all...no lies, no secrets.I have no guilt I have forgiven myself.....They belong to my body/mind only...As Dr Phil says..'people who hide nothing -have nothing to hide..."
Love and pollyanna emotion.
by Tony O'Clery on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 at 10:51am
The most overplayed word is LOVE...most misuse it...It is not pollyanna sentiment and emotional attachment...It is the ground the Sakti energy and it can be devastatingly tough and sometimes cruel......like the Brahmins cow...Krishna gave the cow liberation so it dropped the body and died.. He did this as the Brahmin's last attachment was the cow...so it was cruel in our ego terms but in fact anything that leads to Moksha is Love....even cruel or so called bad karma is good as it moves one toward real love...So Love is Grace is Sakti all else is just mind and emotion and attachment...You cannot pass on love you can only become it...Then you can pass it on.
...Remember the projection of emotion and energy by a pedophile appear as love to a child...Same thing with a phony guru or teacher.
This is why most people are not really interested in Moksha but just talking about it, and having mental gymnastics.............they are afraid to ask for Grace for one never knows what will result....it could be excruciatingly painful and most don't want that..............
Ego is fear-fear is ego...The Self has no fear...The ego goes out to expand and reinforce itself. When it feels it is losing it is filled with the fear of loss and a threat to its illusory existence. It is not the body but it possesses the body and the subtle body----Hence the fear the fear of fear and the fear of loss-grief and joy---and the lack of control. Ego is fear of separation from The Self which is displaced on the 'creation' and existence. The mind goes out and incorporated the attachment and object of pleasure or not, into its own mind like a mirror so to speak. The object of attachment material or subtle is not seen in situ or where it is but in the mind of the beholding ego hence the fear and pain as it is now part of the ego mind itself. Even the image seen and stored is in the past tense...when it is observed even.
One has to be fearless, be not complicit in Himsa or harm unless in defence, for the diminuation of the ego is in direct proportion to fearlessness as the ego is fear itself. That is why all cultures have an abhorance of cowardice...
The ego is the manipulator that names the emotions....it is a bottomless pit of vasanas from previous lives,,,all the lives as saints and sinners, as pacifiers as killers ...all there are there in our memories hoard...as the moodies would say...ready to manifest at anytime...
Ego is fear-fear is ego...The Self has no fear...The ego goes out to expand and reinforce itself. When it feels it is losing it is filled with the fear of loss and a threat to its illusory existence. It is not the body but it possesses the body and the subtle body----Hence the fear the fear of fear and the fear of loss-grief and joy---and the lack of control. Ego is fear of separation from The Self which is displaced on the 'creation' and existence. The mind goes out and incorporated the attachment and object of pleasure or not, into its own mind like a mirror so to speak. The object of attachment material or subtle is not seen in situ or where it is but in the mind of the beholding ego hence the fear and pain as it is now part of the ego mind itself. Even the image seen and stored is in the past tense...when it is observed even.
One has to be fearless, be not complicit in Himsa or harm unless in defence, for the diminuation of the ego is in direct proportion to fearlessness as the ego is fear itself. That is why all cultures have an abhorance of cowardice...
"We don't want to be free from fear. All that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves from fear." U.G. Krishnamurthi.
The most overplayed word is LOVE...most misuse it...It is not pollyanna sentiment and emotional attachment...It is the ground the Sakti energy and it can be devastatingly tough and sometimes cruel......like the Brahmins cow...Krishna gave the cow liberation so it dropped the body and died.. He did this as the Brahmin's last attachment was the cow...so it was cruel in our ego terms but in fact anything that leads to Moksha is Love....even cruel or so called bad karma is good as it moves one toward real love...So Love is Grace is Sakti all else is just mind and emotion and attachment...You cannot pass on love you can only become it...Then you can pass it on.
...Remember the projection of emotion and energy by a pedophile appear as love to a child...Same thing with a phony guru or teacher.
This is why most people are not really interested in Moksha but just talking about it, and having mental gymnastics.............they are afraid to ask for Grace for one never knows what will result....it could be excruciatingly painful and most don't want that..............
Sooner or later the neo advaitin, the vndists or verbal non dualist....will fall back on western psychology to continue the dialogue with themselves...for they are in a cycle, of mind true non duality doesn't not examine the mind but discounts it.
The biggest impediment to realisation is the solitary non dual mentality.,,,it is the thief pretending to be a policeman.
One does not see a loved one where they are at and at that time...but in a nana second later in one's own mind only. This is how attachment forms as it is part of ones own mind,,,,and thus causes pain at separation,,for it is part of one's own mind indeed.
All the words of the Realised ones, Jesus, Maharaj,Ramana,Buddha, etc can be written in one book yet others minds spend lifetimes writing their interpretations on them..
Love is love when it is for its own sake, with no expectation of return and no feeling of I am loving or helping...then it is Love for the Self's sake and not just attachment or emotional sentiment....
Human Love or Attachment to people and objects is not formed in the object of affection but is held only in the mind of the beholder...Even the images we see are not in real time but past time..So the attachment and pain is within ourselves.
I think that moment when one realises that one is actually a stranger in a stranger world...dawns....Then that is the first step on the world to liberation, from mind and madness...
The whole universe exists in the universal mind....only...our minds are just bundles of thoughts..any thought...is an impediment...belief or not.
Yoga or Juj-union is breaking the connection to emotions, grief and joy. The ego is stunned by emotional pain yet at the same time it is satisfied with the validation of its illusory existence, to itself....Hence the wallowing in griefs and self-pity....
Diksha or initiation-Saktipat is better given in silence -mouna..as it is superior to touch, sound etc...........as Dakshinamurthi.....according to Ramana.
There is a place for non realised teachers...it is a start for neophytes. However there is no place for those claiming to be Muktas when they are not. The consider themselves the end so the seeker doesn't continue evolving...
One does not have to understand the molecular structure of water to step out of the pool....one has to just want to step out!, even if there is a ladder to climb.
There can be no fear if one knows one is not a person..
THROUGH THE VICISSITUDES OF LIFE THERE IS ONLY ONE GROUND, ONE CONSTANT AND THAT IS LOVE.
WHEN ONE HAS LEARNED THAT THERE ISN'T ANYTHING TO LEARN THEN ONE HAS LEARNED EVERYTHING. THERE IS NO 'PERSONAL GOD' DOING ANYTHING. Sakti-Consciousness is the 'I AM',Sadguru....Sakshin, or the Witness.
What is Love? Love is God...but what if there is no god as such? Love is the Sakti energy of Saguna Brahman. We are all the prana and karma but the scum on the pond prevents the reflection of sunlight...so we have mostly attachment not 'Love'.
Texts and scriptures are helpful and so is a Jnani as a living text. However ultimately they must be given up, and some never know them at all but know them-SELF.
The San people of the Kalahari desert in South Africa have a saying...'somewhere there is a dream dreaming us'...leakey.
Without teachers and texts they have penetrated to und...erstanding the unreality of even Saguna Brahman/Self....
Mathru Sri Sarada's statement that 'the futility of human existence'...points to the Buddha's Dukkha or all is suffering or potential suffering...The futility is that it won't get any better as long as the dog has a bent hind leg...only solution-Moksha.
If one can penetrate the process of attachment one can ease one's sadhana or practice...The process is 'bonding' or creating Vasanas/wants/needs/desires, that are projected externally but are internal as they survive the demise of the object.
The objects,,demise and grief is caused....ie the letting go of 'attachment vibrations' which are now superfluous..
The pain comes from the fact we have developed and intense attachment to the extent that they become part of our own psyche...and therefore are painful to let go....bad or good.
It is a process of first identifying as a body then by extension all that the body is attached or averse to.
Anger is always frustrated desire..but if we can channel all into the one desire for liberation and then give that up..Giving up the final frustration of bondage...
Humans do not look forward....the look back to the joys between the two griefs then project to try and create a world of remembered joys......Hence strengthening the trap of illusion and delusion.
The truth is the silence between two thoughts....earthly joy comes between two griefs....humans like to remember the joys...that way they fool themselves with attachment.
Once one progressed along 'The Path' one sees the futility of religion..it may be good to be born in one but it is bad to die in one...as one hasn't learned..
Dukha or suffering as Buddha talked of in the 4 noble truths,,,not only encompasses actual suffering but past and future suffering as well. So even pleasure and joy carry with them the possibility and inevitability of suffering -that is Everything is Dukha...
There are times and tides, in one's life, when taken at the full flood leads on to progress towards realisation. Usually they are painful or a recognising of futility in human existence.
Although the herd animal and shoal fish jostle, bump, fight, they still don't leave the group..or its thinking..Humans do the same they are afraid to leave thinking/mind behind...the herd is more secure...with all its travails...
Humans are afraid to die whilst still living...for realisation the ego must die forever..Ordinary death is where the ego leaves temporarily but sitll exists...Realisation is where the ego dies itself...and the process has to be experienced.
Love is the energy the pranic ground...it is not emotional sentiment or attachment. The mystery of attachment is the mind goes out and attaches to something,,and then that becomes part of the beholder's psyche. It becomes an owned pleasure and the ego takes delight in the pleasure..
This is why it is so difficult to separate from one's attachments as they have become part of oneself...as a child, pet or partner or object. These are vasanas and prevent the progress of losing the ego...No matter how non dual your mind thinks it is....it has a thief in the palace...
There has always been localised consciousness in illusion,,,but the ego of man is the reactive defensive mechanism of the animal totally expanded and distorted by the mind.In other words it really has no foundation even at that level and is illusion within illusion.
When you serve others you serve yourself...it is to weaken and dilute your own ego..,karma yoga,.except if you have the idea 'what a good helper I am'...as Jesus said the poor you will always have with you...Take the impossible impulse to change the planet and turn it around to change yourself --right out of here.
Belief is a lack of critical thinking....unless one has given ones ego over in True Bhakti.
When a person 'dies' the ego takes flight-the body becomes inert stiff and cold. Until it takes another 'body'. Similarly on realisation...the ego doesn't take flight but is destroyed....the body is in a similar ego-less death state...until the purified vijnanamaya kosa or universal takes over...All muktas have experienced this...
Sometimes it takes time to reactivate ...as it takes a baby to learn to walk and talk..This is due to the residual prarabda karma left in the body...the fan can be turned off but it still makes a few revolutions. Mathru Sri Sarada took some months..to function...others took less time, like Ramana or Maharaj....
Only human simians have a keen sense of humour, although other animals can laugh, because we instinctively know the ridiculousness of the human situation...only big egos take themselves seriously and they are mostly spiritual seekers.
The Self/Saguna and NirGuna are realises simultaneously once the vasanas and desires are cleared so to speak....Then according to Gaudapada it will be realised nothing ever happened at all...
Awareness has to be left behind for as Nir Guna is the truth what is there to be aware of and that would be dual anyway.
Post on Sadhana for moksha...
Swami Vidyaranya, in his 'Jivanmukti viveka' says that even with respect to those who attain Self-realization through the vichAra-mArga the realization takes place by means of a kShaNika-samAdhi , short term samadhis leading to full nitya samadhi alone.
So essentially what this is saying and is obvious is that no matter how much self enquiry we do .....samadhi is req'd as well,,,,it cant happen all in the mind...So in the end being in samadhi causes the final realisation because that is The Self...When we are in NirVikalpa we are The Self but when we can maintain it....It becomes Sahaja NirVikalpa Samadhi or Moksha.....
So nobody can get realisation without The Self/Guru or whatever..
I spent a good part of my life being clever with words...but I can tell that you words cannot talk of NirVikalpa or describe my sadhana..The operative word is Nir...as in NirVana or NirGuna etc..There is no 'knower' in that...the knower is at the Self or Saguna concept level...as is posited in the creation hymn of the Rig Veda..on whether Brahman knows or doesn't know.
.Ramana, Lakshmana, and all the Muktas have two things in common....
1. Only the Self...or Saguna concept can ultimately destroy the Ego...we cannot do it with our clever minds.
2. Vasanas...ie..tendencies, desires, attributes prevent final Sahaja NirVikalpa and these go back millions of lives and are not available to the conscious mind.Meditation helps in removing the vasanas.
They are like the scum on the pond or the dust on the mirror...the sun is shining all the time...but until the scum is removed from the surface of the pond it cannot reflect the sun..
As Lakshmana says the mind can take you to a false non-dual state that mimics realisation so to speak,,,Mathru Sri Sarada was in this state prior to realisation and even she thought she was liberated, but Lakshmana could see the ego, albeit only a shadow and subtle, and so he actually destroyed the ego so she could become realised. Otherwise at that time the ego was trying to kill the body and get another one...She went blue and cold in a death state, as do all muktas and it took quite some time for her to come back so to speak.
There are two gurus that are actually one.....1. The outer Guru...ie a mukta that is the pure emodied Self.
2. The Inner Guru which shines when all the vasanas are cleaned..
The Inner pulls the seeker and the outer pushes so to speak.
I cannot talk of NirVikalpa as it is not possible to have an opinion on it..that would be just word constructed opinions in the mind which is the problem in fact...I would not attempt to try and interpret the state of realised mukta...that would be the ultimate conceit and delusion of the ego...In the end result only the 'creator' of the ego illusion can remove it, as it is above mind....
he Sex drive vasana is incompatible with moksha as it is linear and expansive as the creation energy vasana...meditation and moksha are the opposite of this directly....they are a withdrawal of the senses to the source.....
All these people talking all this hypothetics and philosophy brought the tendencies and vasanas with them when the incarnated this time...They didn't just develop it in this life ----the obvious question is....if they brought it with them then it didn't give them realisation and it won't this time either....just whirlpools in the mind..only cleaning all those vasanas works.
Niz Maharaj says humans need oxygen, water and sex. Oxygen and water also food are for preservation....Sex is the outward creation impulse,.and one cannot get moksha with this outward impulse.Destruction comes from inertia and is impulses..
An illiterate 'primitive' can get moksha without intellectualisation..Somewhere there is a dream dreaming us...Ko San of Kalahari...Leakey.
It is only in the sounds of silence...that we are....
It is in the sounds of silence that the vasanas or burned up as prana is stronger than karma...of which it is constructed in illusion.
Nothing sounds more true and resonates with your mind, and comfort level more than the teachings of a fake.
Eloquent 'verbal non dualist' speak in the whirlpool of the conscious mind..leads nowhere but to rebirth unless deep meditation and removal of vasanas is done. The conscious mind is just the shine on the outer skin of the apple of mind..and leads only to rebirth.............people who speak like this brought it with them from a previous life.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cleansing of Vasanas is progressive and painful to human attachments...What we call love turns out to be attachments.....emotion and sentiment...of the lower mind..These are cleansed and many are not ready for that...do not ask for Grace if you cannot handle it...
Attachment is the base of existence...even the plants have it...it is actually a distortion of the 'All is one' feeling'...even animals grieve loss....everything wants to be whole...even if it is one thing at a time....this impulse is then misunderstood hence attachment occurs....the human ego individualises it to a relationship.
Words like 'awakening, awareness, now,.enlightenment, realisation' belong to The Self only and describe the qualities of Sat-Cit-Ananda. Unless one is a Mukta then all these word are just states of mind without all vasanas being cleared.
Due to attachment, children are essentially pet humans...but unlike pets they mature cause joy and pain and then want their own pet humans....large and small.
Attachment is a false version by the ego-jiva of what true Bhakti is...it is the innate desire to become the Sakti, that we are.We should love other beings for the Self's sake not our sake or it causes both joy and pain,,,,and not just bliss,,and peace.
The pain of separation from the Self caused by vasanas is what causes attachment to anything but...the Self for the Ego is in love with itself alone...
WE don't clean the Vasanas so we cannot see The Self so we look for the Self everywhere else...like looking for glasses which are already on one's head...we go outwards instead of inwards.
Even the attachment to false teachers and charlatans is part of this searching for what we already are.
Speech as opposed to telepathy used by the animals...and the silence of muktas arose due to a need to be untruthful, and have a deeper involvement in material. ~
It also has the effect of mechanising the mind due to speech, which leads to deeper involvement in the illusion of materiality...The frontal lobes are developed for this like a computer.
Most people don't want liberation they just want to know about it....and add it to spiritual materialism...It is a huge psychological break to negate all that is mind.
The non-mukta 'bait teachers' like all the neo advaitins, verbal non dualists, philosophers, are like earlier travelers on the road and they can help you, by the hand, on the journey...problem is when you get to the river neither of you can swim.
One way of telling whether there is a guru helping you is suffering and pain...you will find it comes karmically and then there is respite or a break before it starts or ends again....This is guru giving you only what you can bear and one time....
I was just thinking about my bio...all the so called bad things and all the so called good things I have done in my life are no secret...I own them all...no lies, no secrets.I have no guilt I have forgiven myself.....They belong to my body/mind only...As Dr Phil says..'people who hide nothing -have nothing to hide..."
Love and pollyanna emotion.
by Tony O'Clery on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 at 10:51am
The most overplayed word is LOVE...most misuse it...It is not pollyanna sentiment and emotional attachment...It is the ground the Sakti energy and it can be devastatingly tough and sometimes cruel......like the Brahmins cow...Krishna gave the cow liberation so it dropped the body and died.. He did this as the Brahmin's last attachment was the cow...so it was cruel in our ego terms but in fact anything that leads to Moksha is Love....even cruel or so called bad karma is good as it moves one toward real love...So Love is Grace is Sakti all else is just mind and emotion and attachment...You cannot pass on love you can only become it...Then you can pass it on.
...Remember the projection of emotion and energy by a pedophile appear as love to a child...Same thing with a phony guru or teacher.
This is why most people are not really interested in Moksha but just talking about it, and having mental gymnastics.............they are afraid to ask for Grace for one never knows what will result....it could be excruciatingly painful and most don't want that..............
Ego is fear-fear is ego...The Self has no fear...The ego goes out to expand and reinforce itself. When it feels it is losing it is filled with the fear of loss and a threat to its illusory existence. It is not the body but it possesses the body and the subtle body----Hence the fear the fear of fear and the fear of loss-grief and joy---and the lack of control. Ego is fear of separation from The Self which is displaced on the 'creation' and existence. The mind goes out and incorporated the attachment and object of pleasure or not, into its own mind like a mirror so to speak. The object of attachment material or subtle is not seen in situ or where it is but in the mind of the beholding ego hence the fear and pain as it is now part of the ego mind itself. Even the image seen and stored is in the past tense...when it is observed even.
One has to be fearless, be not complicit in Himsa or harm unless in defence, for the diminuation of the ego is in direct proportion to fearlessness as the ego is fear itself. That is why all cultures have an abhorance of cowardice...
The ego is the manipulator that names the emotions....it is a bottomless pit of vasanas from previous lives,,,all the lives as saints and sinners, as pacifiers as killers ...all there are there in our memories hoard...as the moodies would say...ready to manifest at anytime...
Ego is fear-fear is ego...The Self has no fear...The ego goes out to expand and reinforce itself. When it feels it is losing it is filled with the fear of loss and a threat to its illusory existence. It is not the body but it possesses the body and the subtle body----Hence the fear the fear of fear and the fear of loss-grief and joy---and the lack of control. Ego is fear of separation from The Self which is displaced on the 'creation' and existence. The mind goes out and incorporated the attachment and object of pleasure or not, into its own mind like a mirror so to speak. The object of attachment material or subtle is not seen in situ or where it is but in the mind of the beholding ego hence the fear and pain as it is now part of the ego mind itself. Even the image seen and stored is in the past tense...when it is observed even.
One has to be fearless, be not complicit in Himsa or harm unless in defence, for the diminuation of the ego is in direct proportion to fearlessness as the ego is fear itself. That is why all cultures have an abhorance of cowardice...
"We don't want to be free from fear. All that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves from fear." U.G. Krishnamurthi.
The most overplayed word is LOVE...most misuse it...It is not pollyanna sentiment and emotional attachment...It is the ground the Sakti energy and it can be devastatingly tough and sometimes cruel......like the Brahmins cow...Krishna gave the cow liberation so it dropped the body and died.. He did this as the Brahmin's last attachment was the cow...so it was cruel in our ego terms but in fact anything that leads to Moksha is Love....even cruel or so called bad karma is good as it moves one toward real love...So Love is Grace is Sakti all else is just mind and emotion and attachment...You cannot pass on love you can only become it...Then you can pass it on.
...Remember the projection of emotion and energy by a pedophile appear as love to a child...Same thing with a phony guru or teacher.
This is why most people are not really interested in Moksha but just talking about it, and having mental gymnastics.............they are afraid to ask for Grace for one never knows what will result....it could be excruciatingly painful and most don't want that..............
Sooner or later the neo advaitin, the vndists or verbal non dualist....will fall back on western psychology to continue the dialogue with themselves...for they are in a cycle, of mind true non duality doesn't not examine the mind but discounts it.
The biggest impediment to realisation is the solitary non dual mentality.,,,it is the thief pretending to be a policeman.
One does not see a loved one where they are at and at that time...but in a nana second later in one's own mind only. This is how attachment forms as it is part of ones own mind,,,,and thus causes pain at separation,,for it is part of one's own mind indeed.
All the words of the Realised ones, Jesus, Maharaj,Ramana,Buddha, etc can be written in one book yet others minds spend lifetimes writing their interpretations on them..
Love is love when it is for its own sake, with no expectation of return and no feeling of I am loving or helping...then it is Love for the Self's sake and not just attachment or emotional sentiment....
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