Semantics is the problem and anthropomorphising...giving a word a personality or being.....God essentially means good

Semantics is the problem and anthropomorphising...giving a word a personality or being.....God essentially means good...but it has been misappropriated by religions to be a being with attributes an alpha ape in the sky a giant boon granter and baby sitter who speaks through religions.............However Divine Goodness can refer to the prana very easily if not corrupted by religion/ God=Divine Goodness=- Life-Force Prana...................MA..... SO IN RELIGION GOD IS A MISMOMER AS IT REFERS TO A SUPERSTITION . GOD - The English word God is identical with the Anglo-Saxon word for “good,” and therefore it is believed that the name God refers to the divine goodness. (See Oehler's Theol. of Old Test.; Strong's and Young's concordances.) (From New Unger's Bible Dictionary) (Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (C) 1988.) Further information on the source of our word for ‘God’ is listed below: Word origin: God - Our word god goes back via Germanic to Indo-European, in which a corresponding ancestor form meant “invoked one.” The word’s only surviving non-Germanic relative is Sanskrit hu, invoke the gods, a form which appears in the Rig Veda, most ancient of Hindu scriptures: puru-hutas, “much invoked,” epithet of the rain-and-thunder god Indra. (From READER’S DIGEST, Family Word Finder, page 351) (Originally published by The Reader’s Digest Association, Inc., Pleasantville New York, Montreal; Copyright (C) 1975) Now if the sources noted above are accurate, then the word that we use for the Supreme Being, God, comes from a very pagan origin. Thus the word god is used generically by many different religions to refer to their deity or “invoked one.” om

Every thought and event in all our lives as a Jiva is in our minds

Every thought and event in all our lives as a Jiva is in our minds. Some appear as dreams , some manifest as karma. It is impossible to process the karma in one life...hence rebirth into many bodies, even in different dimensions. They are all there to be remembered if you learn how to access. Meditation sometimes triggers it more obviously. We can only get beyond it all. With Moksha. The imprint is even in the body...i had a stiff neck all my life until i had the regression about being killed by a shot at Shiloh on my neck....ever after the condition in my neck disappeared. These are what make you different from the next person and identifiying with these samskaras and tendencies thoughts cloud out the Self we are.... This is one of my stories except I was sent to the caribeann as a slave on a sugar plantation....I escaped and was taken to New Orleans by an Irish Captain Kelly.. I learned English and entered some kind of council or legislature.............I died in that life a the Battle of Shiloh leading a cavalry charge 1862.for the Confederacy...I remember black feathers in my hat...I left behind in Ireland a wife and a child on the dock but could never go back under pain of execution........So the fields of Athenry is my song from another time and another person... That was my first spontaneous regression when i started meditation.............. Fields Of Athenry - The Dubliners [15/16] With Pady Reilly RTE Festival Folk 1984 Like · · Share

It is fascinating how in Sanathana Dharma ideas,energies and the esoteric are personified

It is fascinating how in Sanathana Dharma ideas, energies and the esoteric are personified and objectified for those that do not have the capacity to understand the concepts and also to preserve the concepts in times of destruction and lack of technology and philosophy. This is Hinduism an umbrella of 350 belief systems and is NOT RELIGION PER SE but some modern day fundamentalists are trying to religionise it.........T One of the worst things that has happenes is the 'one god' idea of the Jews, Christians, and Musllims....as it is not the life force of siva/sakit but just one big composite superstition a huge Deva with attributes......It deflects away from the truth that we are all Prana................................ This is only a recent aberration in human historhy arising within the last couple of thousand years with Akhenaten ( Moses?) in Egypt....before that there was no relgion but various spiritualities.............. Unfortunately there is no way of preventing some Hindus from worshipping the idea as reality.idols .due to lack of development of vijananamayakosa........

The problem with believing bullshit superstition is that shit happens

The problem with believing bullshit superstition is that shit happens... All the religions protect each other as they don't want a brick in the wall to come out and cause a disaster like critical thinking and people waking up. All this man of belief and faith crap just means they have a lack of critical thinking even at the top level.....or pay lip service to superstition ......T It comes from the ancient pre religion tradition of tolerating other peoples superstitions within spirituality..which was pretty harmless at that level as the idols represented energies the modern relgions of a made up god, one god, is dangerous as its evidenced by the total violence that has been attracted over the last 2-3 thousands years since religion was invented....

I remember many years ago in 1985 asking myself the question....If Astral descents descended into Ape bodies where did the soul of the ape go to?

I remember many years ago in 1985 asking myself the question....If Astral descents descended into Ape bodies where did the soul of the ape go to? The answer came back rapidly and forcefullyl..............NOWHERE THE SOUL OF THE APE IS STILL IN THE HUMAN.....The astral entity is an ego construct that uses the bodies of the animal to introduce its dream ideas into this material plane..so making it neither one place or another....The astrals hovered over the apes and changed the species mind at the mind or astral level so forming and accelerating the evolution of the Bonobos type ape into a human simian and then the astral egos entered all these bodies and caused humanity....Luckily we still have the 'soul' of the ape otherwise we would have no empathy and compassion at all....This movement into the ape was to provide a template instead of going into all kinds of animals and dreaming up forms and becoming stuck... It is this knowledge of the astral that gives the belief in devas and angels etc........and even by logial extension the hierarchy of astrals ...topped by the fictitious 'god' or iswara-allah idea........total superstitious nonsense.... Causing many martyrs like Jesus and Mansour the Sufi who said we are all god....there is no separate universal intervening god...............there is no Jehovah, Iswara, Allah etc etc..........This is why the Sufis are not muslims as true sufis do not beleive in Allah they just got caught up in the expansion of islam....so rented a room in there.....................

INTRODUCTION TO JESUS THE NAZORITE. Nazorite means renunciant

INTRODUCTION TO JESUS THE NAZORITE. Nazorite means renunciant. It seems to me that the Essenic influence has been overlooked in favour of a Judaic standard, with regard to Jesus. Josephus does say that there were about 4,000 Essenes, and perhaps seven thousand Pharisees and a few thousand Sadducees. Josephus also claims to have lived with the Essenes so would have a personal understanding of what they believed. This is besides the general population of course. Pliny, Philo and many others wrote about the Essenes as well. The Catholic Encyclopedia now recognises a debt to the Essenes, since the Dead Sea Scrolls. If Jesus came from an Essenic background then he wouldn't have been either Pharisaic or Sadducean. He would have had a broader belief system with other influences from mystery groups in Egypt, India, Egypt, and of course Persia. The claims to be' Son of God', or only begotten, come from the later Christians. St Augustine is quoted as saying that which is now called Christian has always existed, since the beginning of time. In fact they also had an installation in Egypt at Heliopolis, probably harking back beyond Akhenaten, the Monotheist. They also had contact with other groups around the world and as far away as India. Which isn’t surprising for the Buddhists were in Alexandria. I don't understand why the Pharisees would have been persecuting the Essenes and Christians but it is not hard to see how the Herodian Sadducees would be, as they were persecuting all the groups. Was Paul working for the Temple Police? It is mentioned in the Scrolls that the Teacher of Righteousness was killed by the wicked Priest, this would fit in with the fact the Sadducees regarded the prophets as heretics. Although this was up to a hundred years before Jesus. However the Essenes believed their teacher would reincarnate again. Perhaps we should look more to Mt Karmel and Egypt for an idea of what Jeshua believed and came out of. I have never presumed he was a member of a regular Jewish sect. Galilee was even full of Greek settlements at this time as well...This is presuming that Jeshua really existed and I believe that he did. Why? Well apart from the billions that believe the same, there are writings from near the time of Jesus. Notably Josephus, Pliny, some other Roman Historians, the Gospels and the Talmud. Most of this evidence is believed to be in the Vatican Library today. MARY THE MAGDALENE---------TEACHER AND ‘BISHOP’. Mary was obviously very close to Jesus, and this was not only due to the fact that she was the sister of Martha and Lazarus, who Jesus knew very well. She was apparently a ‘Courtesan’ with the Roman occupation and ran into trouble with the Sadducees over this. She was the woman saved by Jesus from being stoned as an adulteress. Jesus also cured her of the seven deadly spirits or vices. She apparently was ‘born again’ and became a devoted follower, never leaving his side. From her appearance she seem to be of Greek and Hebrew ancestry and in all likelihood was originally a follower of the Essenes. As was Jesus and his family also. The Essenes were much more eclectic and very different from the Sadducees and Pharisees. They also had no discrimination against women. So women could rise and be Elders and Teachers in the Church just as much as men. So as it is obvious, from the naming of a Gospel after her, Mary was a leader or ‘Bishop’ in the Early Church. There isn’t much description of Jesus and the Renunciant Essenes but there is a description of his brother James, which is in the introduction, and he definately was a mystical type. Mary no doubt was of the same group as James and his brother Simon. There is much talk of Jesus and Mary having a sexual relationship, but this is unlikely considering their renunciant state. As far as kissing her on the mouth in front of the disciples, many family members do this and too much shouldn’t be read in to it. More than likely they are referring to the Essenic custom of kissing on the cheek. More important is the fact she was at the crucifixion and the first to see Jesus on his reappearance, from the tomb. When Saul of Tarsus took over the guiding of the Gentile Church there were some great changes. The Jerusalem and original Church was still very Essenic but St Paul wasn’t. This was because he wasn’t an Essene but a Pharisee, and this would account, perhaps if it is true, for the lack of woman Teachers or Rebbes. The course of the Church continued in this fashion until it was established by Constantine. The original Essenic Christians of Mary, James, Simon and the original apostles split into different groups. Generally becoming known as Nazorites, Gnostics and eventually some became Sufis and mystics. Considering this, it is the present Church that could be considered ‘heretical’ BY SOME, for not following the teachings of Jesus and having female Rebbes, Teachers or Priests.

Why are human simian so sexy?

Why is the sex vasana so powerful in human simians..... 1. Because like the Bonobos Chimp they are always in season and use it as an incentive in relationships like Bonobos. 2. The original astral descents chose a simian instead of all the mixtures to incarnate in and they got caught 'the fall of adam'...so the desire they have to enjoy the senses that trapped them herre set the standard and even enhanced the general sexuality of the original hominid.............. http://thewebsiteofeverything.com/animals/mammals/Primates/Hominidae/Pan/Pan-paniscus.html The Bonobo - The Most Sexual Active Apes on Earth - pictures and facts thewebsiteofeverything.com The bonobo (Pan paniscus), is one of the closest relatives to humans along with ...See More

Religion = Totalitarianism

Totalitarianism was not started by communism and fascism but by the religions all of them....the used the relligions and their organisations as blueprint.

Ajativada and wikipedia joshua jonathan and kim dent-brown

Wikipedia is bad for philosophy pages.....a couple of wiki official editors are buddhists and they keep editing out any vedanta and hindu stuff posted just to keep it Buddhist....very childish ...Actually ai think one Bharainy is a muslim likely.... Joshua Jonathan...and kim dent-brown... I think the problem is they cannot grasp the theory or vada and can only get as far as Saguna TRUE AJATIVADA IS NOT NIRVANA BUT PARANIRVANA..T. There is a difference.T. Slight attachment by subtle body..Nis......They have stopped editing so I can do nothing....but if you want you can keep an eye on it and 'undo' them from time to time hahahaha. Anybody but me can edit wikipedia...........hahah ajativada wikipedia

Meditation is beyond mind Nirvikalpa Samahdi all else is within mind

I constantly see people offering meditation...oprah, deepak, et al etc etc etc....NOBODY CAN TEACH MEDITATION EXCEPT A SIDDHA. And even they can only take you to the door unless they are a Mukta/Self. Meditation is beyond mind Nirvikalpa Samahdi all else is within mind and only preparation or concentration....ONE WOULD DO BETTER TO SLEEP.

The Ego mind is an illlusion within an illusion and there is no end to the computations,

The Ego mind is an illusion within an illusion and there is no end to the computations, permutations and imaginings in an infinite dream of universes upon universes...It is the imaging combined with desire that creates vasanas infinitely. Even a chimp or ape can be trained to watch televison and even work a remote to its favourite channel..............BUT IS DOES NOT NEED TO....That is the problem with the human simian projected imagination beyond need into only desires and vasanas............all just imaginings in a dream in other words an exercise in futility.................. There is no end to the insanity of the ego...this planet will eventually be depopulated and human entities will start again. The same entities well take different forms in other similar planets in the universes.. There are infinite egg shaped universes to live in And that doesn't include the subtle dimensions of the endless infinite dream...........ONE CAN ONLY STOP.

Humans spend a lot of time trying to improve their lot where they live

Humans spend a lot of time trying to improve their lot where they live.....like going to a pigsty and trying to tidy it up without realising we are not pigs and should not be living in the sty at all.....Like the story of Indra the king of the gods who entered a pig and thought he was a pig and had a pig family and everything.. The Devas came and asked why he was living as a pit and he said he liked it and had a wife and childrene pigs. So they tore open the pig and realiesd Indra the king of the gods.... Tony O'Clery It is our ego attachment that makes us want to change the world instead of leaving

Non duality the big bang and Norma

Norma I don't usually try and teach...I'm more in the not this and not that and quotes.from realised souls..I know you have been down the Guru type road...and as you are a relative I will just say this... Think about the big bang when all was one...and then all this happened....so it all came out of one thing...and is one thing. Imagine if you had... See More 5000MMX or more microscope glasses on, when you looked around you would see no people, you would see nothing but an energy soup---a oneness....and below that a unified field of energy and below that----nothing to see....So the there cannot be separate souls in the universe it can only be one...We separate everything into dualism....kind of like whirlpools in the ocean thinking that they are separate from the ocean itself....or the waves thinking they are separate..What causes this is the ego...using the defence reaction response mechanism and building it up into a phantom separate being -----us....So we have to think about all being one....and more important we have to develop the feeling of all being one...as all the intellectualising is just words and they are just energy structures also.....Also we have to do some conscious practise or sadhana so we can cleanse our inner subconscious and prevent us from realising oneneess with the soul of the universe...I would suggest meditation perhaps with some ritual and yoga...even hatha yoga or exercises if it is done by a Hindu trained person...otherwise it may as well be dancing.....I hope this helps....It takes a fair bit of time......I can point you at some books...Love Tony.

James the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian

James the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian wore only linen clothing and bathed daily in cold water at dawn, and was a life long Nazerite....or renunciant....So this is Jesus as well.....in fact the rebellion against Rome was caused in part by the death of James .. Jesus, Mary and Joseph came out of the Essenes.............. The claims that the holy pope is the descendent of Jesus in power is absolutely ridiculous he is nearer the real founder emperor constantine............Listening to all these priests and pope quoting Jesus etc is just politics........ Christianity is not Christian or Essenic at all............There are some left over links though as the Carmelite order still have the holy place as Mt Carmel...as that was the temple Jesus went to...The temple in Jerusalem was considered unclean by the Essenes due to money changing and animal sacrifice.......

Just as people pet animals

Just as humans have pet animals and even pet humans called children. The Astrals Descents that many are also have pet human bodies, which they turn into ken and barbie dolls and use as instruments of pleasure.......................

pope is a politician

New Pope is a politician he should run for another office...A trillion dolllar business is going to go poor....give me a break....He chooses the name St Francis but St Francis was at least a vegetarian, and an ascetic or anchorite......hardly the pope in his palace with meat and wine for dinner...etc etc.......All bullshit....and politics only ---still a Jesuit coup....all about greed and power only. All the dopes think god appointed the Pope.... When in fact the early church under the magdalene and james was superseded by Paul and Peter and they by Emperor Constantine about 300 ce or so..........Jesus would have nothing to do with this huge capitalist edifice...................he had no home....

tony o'clery diary novel

http://tonymcnallywebsite.yolasite.com/

This is the answer to the question of why humans are so different from the apes

NOTHING EVER HAPPENED AJATIVADA...But if you consider the illusion .....everything is prakriti, prana and karma...Kaos is a good way of describing it...this results in a balance between particles/waves due to attraction and repulsion...etc..So a natural evolution occurs up to the animal world, including early hominids, before the descent of the Astrals into bodies and so confusing and creating a unnatural evoluton and Ego...It is the mind of the astral that has caused the adharmic distortion, greed, politics, religions, etc etc.............We have to reverse the process and go beyond the Astral and attain Moksha.............. This is the answer to the question of why humans are so different from the apes..The 2% genetic doesn't account to the tendencies and mind of the 'Astrals'...............................In the Hindu and Bible texts they talk of descents especially in the Book of Enoch, which was the most popular early christian book....In the Puranas it is mentioned of two descents of spiritually inclined astrals the Red and Blue Kumaras who tried to correct the situation.. I think what they achieved is souls that know about and work for Moksha....

Faith and alpha ape in the sky

Religion/Belief is essentially a lack of critical thinking.and superstition. The god concept is essentially an alpha ape in the sky..... Many Muktas talk about god when they are talking to people who are superstitious and no not have the capacity to understand the truth....ie they talk at different levels... However Ramana said the truth is ajativada....and Niz said if he went around talking to ordinary people the way Jesus did they would crucify him also.

Virtues are mere tokens

"The main thing is earnestness. Be honest with yourself and no- thing will betray you. Virtues and powers are mere tokens for children to play with. They are useful in the world, but do not take you out of it. To go beyond, you need alert immobility, quiet attention." Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

NIZ when you sit in deep meditation

When you sit in deep meditation, your sense of being is totally infused with the knowledge ‘I am’ only. In such a state it will be revealed to you intuitively as to how and why your sense of ‘I amness’ emerged. Consciousness, beingness, sense of being, ‘I amness’, all are the same in you, prior to emanation of any words..NIZ Maharaj..

Niz...nisarga means natural no birth or death

Maharaj : Nisarga means natural, natural,no birth, no death , just there. In this universe , species take birth and return back to nature , they go no where. Sattva , Rajas and Tamas 9 the three gunas ) are the limbs of nature , the five elements and three gunas are inherent in nature. This body is born in nature and nature only , nothing else and is without identity. The world is created out of dirt, natural physical emissions turn into beautiful human forms. I am going to sign - NISARGADATTA - nature itself. Any stance has limitations but i am beyond that, nature only, vast nature , no shape or form and no limitations. If you want to be Nisargadatta , do only one thing, be in that state of harmony which is consciousness, being in natural harmony , all the puzzles will be solved. After one has accepted this state ( the knowledge of one's just Being) , many kinds of things can happen. Some will have long life ; others will have a glimpse of what is generally known as heaven , that state ( Beingness) will itself create heaven. Beingness is the cause and lord of all manifestations - Vishnu , Ishwara. when this foof-body disappears , this Beingness also will disappear. In nature - Nisargadatta - there are millions of years and lives, what has happened to them ? What are they doing ? Reincarnation and the rest are all just concepts to while away time. There are millions of fish, can you have kundalini for them ?Because of identification we have created trouble. Fish have no trouble , since they have no identity ; concepts help only to pass time. Everybody wants things when alive , we do this and we do that , after death , when breath has gone , what is of oneself that reamins ? Ntaure konws no end, no beginning , all concepts are only moments in consciousness ; one considers oneself as an individual and suffers.

All the scriptures are of no use NIZ

All the scriptures of Hindu as well as other religions are available to you.Go and read them they are of no use . But i say you can go back to the point where from where you really come and see if you have really come. That will require meditation and you will have to constantly return to that point...Nisargadatta Maharaj.

The most important function of a human is free will and self determination

The most important function of a human is free will and self determination, even if it is an action in illusion. The mind is above karma so on that plane the future fruits are created....Manipulation and prevention of free will and self determination attract very bad karma...........................

Self euthanasia

Q. Is it obligatory to live out one's natural life span? M. Natural -spontaneously -easy-yes. But disease and suffering are not natural. There is noble virtue in unshakable endurance of whatever comes but there is also dignity in the refusal of meaningless torture and humiliation.... 58 minutes ago ·

....There is no separate personal god.

To clear up a question or two....There is no separate personal god....god is life force the entire universe is a manifestation of...Because of our egos we look outward instead of inwards so we are not aware consciously of our own self or Self....when we turn inwards we become everything that is manifested as the TRUTH. So there is no separate intervening god to pray to or worship....the manifest universe is only ever PRANA AND KARMA AND THAT IS IT...THERE IS NO GOD, THAT IS SUPERSTITION AND MANIPULATION. There are Devas and other beings demi gods etc but they are only as real as we are but in different dimensions. Many people cannot face this and then the life force and karma gets called god....but it doesn'nt change the fact there is no god. S... Very well said. I totally agree with this. You have put the whole truth in a nutshell . Thank you! about an hour ago via mobile · Like

Because we use the frontal lobes to turn every thought into words we spend more time processing rather than accepting..T..

Because we use the frontal lobes to turn every thought into words we spend more time processing rather than accepting..T.. We look but cannot help describing in words what we are looking....we think on words the lowest form of speech.

Niz Maharaj by david godman.org

I love Niz's rambunctiousness and shouting it suits my loud personality hahahahaha David: There may have been others but the only other one I know about, since I witnessed it first-hand, was a Canadian – at least I think he was Canadian – called Rudi. I had listened to some tapes before I first went to Maharaj and this man Rudi featured prominently on them. I have to say that he sounded utterly obnoxious. He was pushy, argumentative and aggressive; apparently Maharaj threw him out on several occasions. I had never met Rudi; I only knew him from the tapes I had heard. Then one day Maharaj announced, 'We have a jnani coming to visit us this morning. His name is Rudi.' I laughed because I assumed that Maharaj was making fun of his pretensions to enlightenment. Maharaj could be quite scathing about people who claimed to be enlightened, but who weren't. Wolter Keers, a Dutch advaita teacher, was someone who fell into that category. Every so often he would come to Bombay to see Maharaj, and on every visit Maharaj would tell him off for claiming to be enlightened when he wasn't. On one visit he started lecturing Wolter before he had even properly entered the room. There was a wooden stairway that led directly into the room where Maharaj taught. As Wolter's head appeared above the top step, Maharaj suspended his other business and started laying into him. 'You are not enlightened! How dare you teach in the West, claiming that you are enlightened?' On one of my other visits Wolter was due to arrive and Maharaj kept asking when he was going to appear. 'Where is he? I want to shout at him again. When is he going to arrive?' On that particular visit I had to leave before Wolter came so I don't know what form the lecture took, but I suspect that it was a typically hot one. Anyway, let's get back to Rudi. When Maharaj announced that a 'jnani' was due, I assumed that Rudi was going to get the Wolter treatment. However, much to my amazement, Maharaj treated him as the genuine article when he finally showed up. After spending a good portion of the morning wondering when Rudi was going to appear, Maharaj then asked him why he had bothered to come at all. 'To pay my respects to you and to thank you for what you have done for me. I am leaving for Canada and I came to say goodbye.' Maharaj didn't accept this explanation: 'If you have come to this room, you must have some doubt left in you. If you were doubt-free, you wouldn't bother to come at all. I never visit any other teachers or Gurus because I no longer have any doubts about who I am. I don't need to go anywhere. Many people come to me and say, "You must visit this or that teacher. They are wonderful," but I never go because there is nothing I need from anyone. You must want something you haven't got or have a doubt to come here. Why have you come?' Rudi repeated his original story and then kept quiet. I was looking at him and he seemed to me to be a man who was in some inner state of ecstasy or bliss that was so compelling, he found it hard even to speak. I still wasn't sure whether Maharaj was accepting his credentials, but then the woman he had arrived with asked Maharaj a question. Maharaj replied, 'Ask your friend later. He is a jnani. He will give you correct answers. Keep quiet this morning. I want to talk to him.' It was at this point that I realised that Maharaj really did accept that this man had realised the Self. Rudi then asked Maharaj for advice on what he should do when he returned to Canada. I thought that it was a perfectly appropriate question for a disciple to ask a Guru on such an occasion, but Maharaj seemed to take great exception to it. 'How can you ask a question like that if you are in the state of the Self? Don't you know that you don't have any choice about what you do or don't do?' Rudi kept quiet. I got the feeling that Maharaj was trying to provoke him into a quarrel or an argument, and that Rudi was refusing to take the bait. At some point Maharaj asked him, 'Have you witnessed your own death?' and Rudi replied 'No'. Maharaj then launched into a mini-lecture on how it was necessary to witness one's own death in order for there to be full realisation of the Self. He said that it had happened to him after he thought that he had fully realised the Self, and it wasn't until after this death experience that he understood that this process was necessary for final liberation. I hope somebody recorded this dialogue on tape because I am depending on a twenty-five-year-old memory for this. It seems to be a crucial part of Maharaj's experience and teachings but I never heard him mention it on any other occasion. I have also not come across it in any of his books. Maharaj continued to pester Rudi about the necessity of witnessing death, but Rudi kept quiet and just smiled beatifically. He refused to defend himself, and he refused to be provoked. Anyway, I don't think he was in any condition to start and sustain an argument. Whatever state he was in seemed to be compelling all his attention. I got the feeling that he found articulating even brief replies hard work. Finally, Rudi addressed the question and said, 'Why are you getting so excited about something that doesn't exist?' I assumed he meant that death was unreal, and as such, was not worth quarrelling about. Maharaj laughed, accepted the answer and gave up trying to harass him. 'Have you ever had a teacher like me?' demanded Maharaj, with a grin. 'No,' replied Rudi, 'and have you ever had a disciple like me?' They both laughed and the dialogue came to an end. I have no idea what happened to Rudi. He left and I never heard anything more about him. As they say at the end of fairy stories, he probably lived happily ever after. davidgodman.org of course

ajativada is not anutpada, which is Saguna

I was the first to enter ajativada on wikipedia in 2005 but until recently when it was interloped or edited by buddhists and perhaps some muslims it was strictly Vedantic....now the Buddhistic stuff about Gaudapad is erroneous as it doesn't mention that he mentions ajativada in the pre buddhist upanishads and rig veda....My quotes and references to the Rig Veda and Upanishads were deleted to make it appear that Gaudapad got the idea from the Buddhist which is untrue.............Tony.TRUE AJATIVADA IS NOT NIRVANA BUT PARANIRVANA..T. There is a difference.T. Slight attachment by subtle body..Nis. When one gives up the ego and the Self destroys it, if one is a Mukta. The SElf uses the vijanamayakosa of the Mukta as the mind. The mukta is now one with the life force...but a body still exists to teach...However like Sri Lakshmana Swamy the next step is PARANIRVANA,,,,Where the mind and body are dropped and all connection with the Saguna Self and one becomes NirGuna.....t

Buddha-This unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed,

There is, O monks, an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed. Were there not, O monks, this unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed. [12] **************************************************************************************************************************************************************8 "Since, O monks, there is an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, and unformed, therefore is there an escape from the born, originated, created, formed." [13] *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** This is the nearest buddhism can get to ajativada but it still indicates '\something uncreated' which is more similar to the concept of Saguna not Nirguna as nirguna can only be described by what it is not...*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Tony O'Clery reference---http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/ *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The Gospel of Buddha reluctant-messenger.com The Gospel of the Buddha: Compiled from ancient records by Paul Carus, 1894 This is where the buddhists who have taken it on themselves to debate my piece fall down as they cannot grasp ajativada.

Ajativada

Ajativada. Vedantic, not Later Buddhistic. It is not the same thing as the Buddhist Anutpada,, which the Buddhist for some reason present as ajativada..(.However Anutpada, or secondary, could equate with the Buddha's unborn...or Saguna Brahaman, in Vedanta. Ajativada means a changeless appearance when in fact it means 'NOTHING EVER HAPPENED AT ALL INCLUDING THE APPEARANCE'. "David Godman, - Nothing ever happened"...Advadhuta Foundation Colorado.1998.1/May.ISBN 0963802259. AN APPEARANCE WOULD NEED A CAUSE/MIND AND THERE IS NO DIRECT CAUSE, ...I WAS THE FIRST TO POST THIS SUBJECT on wikipedia IN 2005. The whole concept of creation is immaginary.It all arose with vrittis, modifications, occurring in the universal mind or akasa which is where the feeling IAm or ego arose.Beyond Akasha is Vital Force or Energy or Saguna Brahman,which provides the Pranas for creation but is not them. Beyond all this is Nirguna Brahman, which negates everything including the so called concept of appearance..As mentioned in David Godman's book...Nothing ever happened. ********************************************************************************\ ***************** In the Vedic Nasadiya Sukta. 10:129. The first linr reflects Ajativada , "Then even nothingness was not ,nor existence". This was multi thousand years before Buddhism,and the night sky in the Rig Veda is 8000 Bce. This sUkta reflects 'ajAtavAda'. This is further elaborated by the word 'visRShTiH' which raises a doubt upon 'creation'. This also is again in perfect tuning with Sri Raman's assertion; 'Where-from this 'visRShTi' came into being? And once again, 'visRShTi' itself can be interpreted according to Vedik Grammar as 'chaos' or 'appearances'. *********************************************************************************************** This indicates Gaudapada had no need to learn from the Buddhists more likely the other way around.He also referred to Ajativada in the Upanishads never mind the Rig. The other problem the Buddhists have is their original scriptures were just that, written down. As opposed to the Vedantic which were oral going back literally thousands of years and it is a well known fact psychologically that memorised texts are less likely to editing and interlopation; So are more accurate. The Sanskrit term Ajativada is one of several alternately-held creation theories in Advaita Vedanta, meaning "non-creation" (of the world). It is not the same thing as the Buddhist Anutpada, which the Buddhist for some reason spuriously present as ajativada... ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Taken together "ajātivāda" means "the Doctrine of no-origination"[1] or non-creation.]Anutpada does not mean the same thing as Ajativada as the Gautama Buddha himself talks about a 'something' whereas in Ajativada there is only the negative or NirGuna.This is a common error of understanding in some advaitins and especially Buddhists. Taken together "anutpāda" means "having no origin", "not coming into existence", "not taking effect", "non-production".[web 2] This infers a 'something' whereas Ajativad has only the negative -nothing. Contemporary Advaitins translate the concept of Ajativada also with the phrase "nothing ever happened", or "not even the appearance of creation exists".[citation needed] That is to say, not even the unreality of the world "exists". This is pointed at with the question "Where does the world go in deep sleep, turiya, nirvikalpa samadhi and nirvikalpa sahaja samadhi/meditation?" ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** In Advaita, there are three creation theories:[web 3] Srishti-drishti-vada: what is created is being perceived. The universe is held to be created by the Brahman in his capacity as Ishwara. Srishti (creation) is therefore prior to Drishti (perception). A thing has to exist for it to be perceived.[web 3] Drishti-srishti-vada: perception is simultaneous with creation Ajativada: creation is not an absolute real event. It actually never "happened". Ajativada implies that searching for a source of the origin of the world in a Creator is futile. ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* As stated in Gaudapada’s Karika Chapter II Verse 48:[web 4] No jiva ever comes into existence. There exists no cause that can produce it. The supreme truth is that nothing ever is born.[web 5] ***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************8 Shankara Adi Shankara wrote: On account of constant absorption in Brahman, freed from the sense of reality of external objects, only seemingly enjoying them when offered by others, like a sleepy baby, perceiving the world as that seen in a dream and recognising it only now and then, such a man is indeed rare. He is the enjoyer of the fruits of untold merit and is truly held blessed and revered on earth.[9] [edit]Ramana Maharshi The twentieth-century Sage Ramana Maharshi was an articulate adherent to the concept of Ajativada. On Sri Ramana's view, Ajativada or non-creation is a part of the highest form of consciousness that can be attained. Sri Ramana described three consecutive steps, each of which corresponds to a different understanding of reality: Somebody or some god created the world The world arises simultaneously with our perception of it Ajativada, the view that the world never happened at all.[10] *****************************************************************************************************************************8 Sadhu Om, a chronicler and devotee of Ramana wrote, At times Sri Ramana Maharshi used to reveal some information which was not given by the scriptures and Puranas such as: how, in the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krishna began His teachings with the doctrines of Ajata and Advaita, but then condescendingly came down to various stages of Dvaita, and how He carefully used words which, though suited to Arjuna's limited grasping power, also gives room for well-ripened aspirants to discover, even now, the motive behind those words.***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************8 Nisargadatta Maharaj Nisargadatta Maharaj's main teaching was that all was consciousness, and that consciousness was awareness interfaced with manifestation and using energy or prana.[11]. He distinguished three levels of discenrment: Individuals begin with first believing they are making things happen; Then they realise that things are in fact happening to them; Then finally they realise that nothing is happening at all.[12]******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************88 "I am trying to tell you ---Give up all this trash, whatever you are studying in the name of religion , in the name of spirituality. Understand only one thing -That godly principle is there..that 'I amness', or consciousness-that is godliest of principles. It is there as long as the vital breath or life force is there." Nisargadatta .Maharaj.'I am that'. "Be still, and know that 'I am', (is) God" (Psalm 46:10), Before Abraham was 'I Am'-----Jesus..............Bible and New Testament. ************************************************************************************************************************************* The Buddhist Meditation of vipassana, or observing the rise and fall of created or compounded things and the development of insight, is an indication of the unreality of the so-called 'creation'.[citation needed] Similar teachings can be found withf the Sufis, like Din Attar, Ibn Arabi, Jalala'din Rumi, Al Hussein Ibn Al-Mansour, Hadrat Muinudin Chisti, Al-Hallaj[citation needed], other Indian saints such as Kabir, Guru Nanak, and Christian mystics such as St John of the Cross, St Theresa de Avila and many more, most of whom were really considered out of the main steam, by their peers. ********************************************************************************************************************************************8 Advaita discerns levels of truth. It is at the level of the highest truth (paramārtha) that there is no origination.[4] [edit]Ontological levels of Reality Advaita took over from the Madhyamika the idea of levels of reality.[13] Usually two levels are being mentioned[14], but Shankara uses sublation as the criterion to postulate an ontological hierarchy of three levels:[15][web 6] Pāramārthika (paramartha, absolute), the absolute level, "which is absolutely real and into which both other reality levels can be resolved".[web 6] This experience can't be sublated by any other experience.[15] Vyāvahārika (vyavahara), or samvriti-saya[14] (empirical or pragmatical), "our world of experience, the phenomenal world that we handle every day when we are awake".[web 6] It is the level in which both jiva (living creatures or individual souls) and Iswara are true; here, the material world is also true. Prāthibhāsika (pratibhasika, apparent reality, unreality), "reality based on imagination alone".[web 6] It is the level in which appearances are actually false, like the illusion of a snake over a rope, or a dream. ************************************************************************************************************************************* ]Levels of Vedanta Ajativada apllies at the highest level of truth, which is also called "Para-Advaita"[citation needed][note 3], comprising a fourth level of Vedanta: Dvaita - duality Visishtadvaita - partial duality Advaita - nonduality Para-Advaita - respectively and finally above non-duality.[note 4] [edit]Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman Main articles: Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman Four levels of awareness or truth can be discerned:[citation needed] Small Ego/Ahamkara - 'I am' Big 'I Am' consciousness of Siva/Sakti-Prana Pure Awareness of SaGuna Brahman Ultimate Truth as NirGuna Brahman. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to Y.K. Menon, for Sankara the goal of Advaita Vedanta is knowledge of the non-duality of Atman and Brahman, thereby realising Sat-Cit-Ananda, or Being, Consciousness, Bliss.[citation needed] According to Ramana Maharshi these are actually qualities, and therefore attributes and still within illusion. In other words not Nirguna Brahman[note 5], but still Saguna Brahman.[citation needed][note 6] According to another interpretation, the realisation of Saguna Brahman and Nirguna is simultaneous, unless the person is a Bhakta/Devotee of some 'God Figure' and a believer in form.[citation needed] On the Pralaya or Dissolution of the Universe, it is Saguna Brahman, or Awareness, that 're-manifests' the universe, and not Nirguna Brahman. This is due to the seeds of manifestation being still present in subtle form or in potentiality, while the material is dissolved in Maha-Pralaya or the Great Dissolution.[citation needed]Pralaya Absolutely seen, Saguna Brahman is ultimately an illusion that never ever happened, Nirguna Brahman being or the only Truth. This can be compared in Vedantic Meditation to Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi (temporary realisation) and Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi (permanent Moksha). A person doing Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi is at the temporary stage.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Glossary of Sanskrit Terms used in this article----- Atman = the individual being, identical with Brahman ---------------------- Jiva = Individual being ------------------------------- Advaita = Non-dual ------------------------------ Dvaita = dual -------------------------------- Visishtadvaita = Non-dual with distinction ---------------------------------------- Ajativada = non-creation, ---------------------------------- Bhakta = Devotee, --------------------------- Brahman = Pure Consciousness. -------------------- Saguna Brahman = Brahman along with Maya, as Creator of the Universe ----------------- Mukta = a free/realised person.------------------ ------------------- Nirguna Brahman = Pure Consciousness. Nir=Nil and Guna=modes; so "beyond all mind". ----------------------- Nirvikalpa Samadhi = where subject-object division is not there; no mind, no modification. --------------------- Sat-Cit-Ananda = Existence-Consciousness-Limitlessness, ---------------------- Pralaya = Dissolution or resolving of the Universe, ----------------------- Maha-Pralaya = Dissolution of the material and subtle universe, --------------- Para = Above/beyond, ---------------------------- Para-advaita = beyond non duality itself ----------------------- Vedanta = The concluding portions of the Vedas, the teachings of the Upanishads, ------------------------------ Turiya = Fourth State --------------------------------- Sahaja = natural meditation, permanent state of NirVikalpa Samadhi ---------------------------------- Sakshin = Witness, ------------------------------- Siva/Sakti = Consciousness/Universal Energy, --------------------------- Jiva = The individual, ----------------------------- Mukti = Freedom, liberation --------------------------------------- Manas = Mind, one of the four faculties of the antahkarana(the other three being buddhi, cittam and ahamkara) ------------------------------------ Vasanas = past impressions of the mind. ------------------------------ ^ The term is also used in the Lankavatara Sutra.[5] According to D.T Suzuki, "anutpada" is not the oppiste of "utpada", but transcends opposites. It is the seeing into the true nature of existence[6], the seeing that "all objects are without self-substance".[7] ^ C.q. "transitory" ^ The term is used in Kashmir Shaivism, meaning "the supreme and absolute non-dualism".[web 7] ^ Gaudapada too states that, from the absolute standpoint, not even "non-dual" exists. Para-Advaita[8] ^ "The Absolute without qualities", the ultimate transcendental, indescribable 'Beyond' ^ "The Absolute with qualities", being or 'Consciousness' associated with 'manifestation'************************************************************************************************************************************************* ]Published references ^ The Crest-Jewel of Discrimination', Mohini M. Chaterjee, The Theosophical Publishing House, Adyar, 1932. Verse 426 ^ David Godman (1986), Be as you are. The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi. London and New York, Arakana ^ 'I am that' ^ 'I am That', Acorn Press. N.C. 1999 ^ Renard 2010, p. 130. ^ a b Renard 2010, p. 131. ^ ^ Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit, Utpāda ^ Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit, Anutpāda ^ a b Ajativada – the missing link ^ Mandukya Upanishad with Gaudapada's Karika ^ a b c d advaita-vision.org, Discrimination ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* Sources Bhattacharya, Vidhushekhara (1943), Gauḍapādakārikā, Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass Chatterji, Mohini M. (1973), Viveka-Cudamani, Adyar: Chennai Dikshit, Sudhaker S. (1999), I Am That. Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Durham, N.C.: Acorn Press Godman, David Godman (1986), Be As You Are: The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi, London: Arakana, pp. 181–3, 184 Hart, William (1987), Vipassana Meditation as taught by S.N. Goenka, San Francisco: Harper and Row Puligandla, Ramakrishna (1997), Fundamentals of Indian Philosophy, New Delhi: D.K. Printworld (P) Ltd. ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Creation theories in Advaita Vedanta Swami Atmananda website Sri Ramana Maharshi website Gaudapada on Mandukya Upanishad Nisargadatta Maharaj website Sanskrit words and phrases

The significance of the words Tapas and Ratri in physics and metaphysics

The significance of the words Tapas and Ratri in physics and metaphysics...from the cosogonic hymn...Tapas provides fundamental creative formula whereby the coscmic consciousness emerges into the realm of measures, variations, limits, frameworks and relations..And the (ILLUSORY) descent of same consciousness with a framework of conditons and specifications to mathematical analysis..RATRI.in its turn represents the principles of limits. Thus the Vedic terms....Ritancha, satyaancha--cosimic order and reality stand for becoming -chalana-kalana..and Being---vartana-kalana.... This from SWAMI PRATYAGATMANAND SARASWATI---THE META PHYSICS OF PHYSICS...... AND FROM THERE TO QUANTAM PHYSICS............

Some thoughts about Christmas...

Some thoughts about Christmas... 1. The wife of the innkeeper,and daughter were Essenic and put Mary in the stable as the inn was raucus with visitors for the Roman census. 2. There was more than one visit from 'wise men' and in fact the Romans -Petreus, directed them to the place Jesus was. 3. He probably was Joshua and Elisha in a previous life...also Hermes and Zend the father of Zoroastra... 4. Cayce also says that he was 'Adam' and a planetary deity. ( Kabbalist differ on this and say he was Moses). 5. Jesus came out of the Essenes where many led a life of renunciation and mysticism. 6. He studied and spent time in India at Jagganath, where records of his visit are ....also the Jains and Buddhists in Leh plus Rangoon. 7. The three days in the tomb was in his initiation in the empty sarcophagus in the Great Pyramid as was John the Baptist. 8. He was vegetarian the word meat or phagos just means food in the Bible. 9. They didn't drink alcohol but non alcoholic must...or grape juice wine. 10.He became a Mukta in his lifetime... 11. Miracles happened around him and he taught karma and rebirth. 12. He founded no Church or institution....the Essenes already existed and their temple was at Mt Carmel...place of the prophets. 13. His brother James ran the organisation in Jerusalem. 14. They were strongly connected to the mystery schools in Egypt...and the Buddhists in Alexandria. 15. He was tried for blasphemy for saying all is god....and for whipping the money changers who were selling animals for sacrifice in Herod's Temple.

Mathru Sri Sarada;--an 'emodied' Mukta....

Mathru Sri Sarada;--an 'emodied' Mukta.... Question: When you say 'meditate on us in the Heart', do you mean that I should visualize an image in the Heart-centre in the same way that you used to do before you realized the Self? Saradamma: No, that is not real Heart meditation; it is just an exercise in concentration. Meditating in the Heart really means that you should make the mind go back into the Heart so that you can experience the bliss of the Self there. If you are thinking about anything, even mine or Swamy's form, then the mind is still active. If you can give up all thoughts and make the mind completely silent and still, then it will automatically sink into the Heart. Meditation in the Heart really begins when the mind rests quietly in the Heart, absorbed in the bliss of the Self."

Saphires a great movie about stolen generation in Australia.

The film touches on Australia's "stolen generation" - victims of a government policy of assimilation that was in place until the late 1960s. Thousands of Aboriginal children were forcibly removed from their families and sent to live at state institutions or with white families.

BC Hospitals Geriatric is 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest----BAD

The BC Hospital system for old people is really bad... A lot of the doctors are immigrants with english as a second language and have a different culture...Most of the nursing assistant care givers are semi literate in english and influence how people are treated...ie giving old people adavan to keep them doped so they are quiescent, making diagnoses they are not qualified to give etc.....and feeding people anti psychotics they don't need...........I am talking about surrey memorial and burnaby general............So be on the ball and don't trust them .....check check check............... Burnaby also had the most spike in c-difficile.....which could be a communications problem.

Act like a being, be an organism, and observe it.

Act like a being, be an organism, and observe it............... Be detached and just see the body like a person, not individual but as in electrons, bosons, mesons etc just a snap of the whole...Tony

Multiculturalism

Multi racialism ----rocks= unity in diversity. Multi culturalism--------sucks= just diversity no unity.

The universes are all mind are all dream

The universes are all mind are all dream....as is the world...There is no end to the machinations, computations and permutations in an endless dream....there is no start or end.... So why get involved in it.....everything is possible for something that never happened.

What does this mean? Old Chinese in Canada ie....those that came early are no problem and very well integrated even down to facial expressions etc.. I use my doctor as a prime example of a typical integrated Chinese-Canadian. I have observed this objectively to try and get a handle on this separateness....and ATTITUDE IS THE MAIN COMPONENT..Most old chinese do not like the new chinese....and the hong kongers don't like the mainlanders...the losers are the old chinese as they are more integrated but poorer and the new immigrants affect them also. So if old chinese are integrated that means eventually the new ones will be as well...After all the chinese built the railways here in canada back in the 19th century.. So what are the impediments to integration? 1. Religion. 2. Culture. 3. Language... Religion can never be overcome as it is by nature divisive.... Culture eventually will more integrated through the generations. Language is a strong impediment as it forces people to be separate.... This is why people like Trudeau had to admit they had failed in multi culturalism....as the 3 points above were not only almost encouraged but were even funded!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????? for votes. The sad thing is that in some communities such as the Sikhs some new generations have turned to gangs and crime although they do not come from a poor background. I feel this is due to a breakdown in communication between parents and children---due to language and archaic rural attitudes the parents have... The only solution to that is that visa to be issued to people who can speak working english and have tests in consulates. Otherwise women get imported into the same rural culture but in a different country and this leaves them open to domestic violence and abuse....in mostly silence...as they cannot communicate outside the culture... So it boils down to 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'. You can see how difficult this is, as i am wrestling with it myself; Trying to understand what has become a bit of a mess.. I know that if I went to a country to live or spend time...I would at least get the rudiments of the language culture etc etc...Unlike many of the North Europeans don't do in Spain and Greece etc.. So multi culturalism is natural and divisive but should not be encouraged or funded so it becomes entrenched...Again the Americans 'Melting Pot' was the best policy and even they have moved from that position somewhat...So the only solution really is; 1. To get a permanent resident visa one must have a proficiency in the host country language...and an understanding to the country's culture and social mores...plus the bill of rights or charter of rights and freedoms. 2. Multi culturalism should not be encouraged by funding temples and clubs etc....or 'buying votes' by politicians. 3. To access services --the national language should be used...no interpreters at all.,,,So no driving licenses or citizenship without language... Like · · Unfollow Post M Turkey's Prime Minister Erdogan said: "Democracy is like a streetcar that you take to your destination, then you get off." Or more accurately, it's like a streetcar that you take only as long as you believe it will get you to your destination, otherwise you hop off. That is exactly what Islam is doing. Using democracy to destroy democracy. about an hour ago · Unlike · 1 Tony O'Clery So the blame lies with govt policies....and the usual politicians.... about an hour ago · Like Tony O'Clery Even I supported multi culturalism in the beginning as I also did not anticipate what would happen. 58 minutes ago · Like Tony O'Clery separation not union. 58 minutes ago · Like Tony O'Clery If there were no relgious differences in syria there would be no war. 55 minutes ago · Like Tony O'Clery Speaking in Potsdam Angela Merkel said allowing people of different cultural backgrounds live to side by side without integrating had not worked in Germany. According to a recent survey, more than 30% of Germans believed that their country was "overrun by foreigners". Mrs Merkel also stressed that immigrants who lived in Germany needed to do more to integrate, including learning to speak German. 35 minutes ago · Like M my country switzerland is really overrun with foreigners. the worst are the north africans ( moslems). at least 90% of these shitheads steal plunder and molest our women and collect money from the state. they do not come here with the intention of integrating or ever working. 14 minutes ago · Like Tony O'Clery Here in Canada it was muliti racial...and that is what we have to get back to................ 9 minutes ago · Like Write a comment...

The mind has been cheating you for thirty-five million years,

The mind has been cheating you for thirty-five million years, my dear children. You have been cheated. Stop this now! Look here and know who you are. Instantly you will find freedom and this suffering -- hitchhiking from womb to womb -- will instantly stop. The only way is to look within. Experiences have been experienced and they have not given you peace. Whereever there is no experiencer there is no experience. So disappear! Experienced, experience, experiencer... let them all disappear right now~H.W.L. POONJA (papaji) This is excellent even the timeline...as this the only one besides edgar cayce that has one....in such a way.. Tony O'Clery Cayce mentions 20mm years for descent into general animal bodies and mixtures and 10mm for descent into human simians .....So the intelligent advance animal goes back a further 15mm years. This an excellent authentication post.

The I Am is the essence or sattva of the food

The I Am is the essence or sattva of the food we eat as food eventually turns in to the life force or prana..........Purified mind allows one to understand and comprehend the words of real sadgurus or muktas....Understanding the words of non realised teachers means nothing and is like water off a ducks back as there is no sakitpat there. So food is important.....eating meat adds in heavy vibrations, and tendencies of the animal and the death throw impressions...thus impeding moksha....So we have to have a sattivic diet or vegetarianism if possible as Ramana says that is imperitive for moksha or yoga Before you aske....Niz Maharaj says it is wrong to kill for food...He also did not say he ate meat but that he came from a family that did....and he ate little of anything.

The Indian PM Mohan Singh is upset about the massacre in the USA

The Indian PM Mohan Singh is upset about the massacre in the USA and is calling on the US Govt to educate people about the difference between Sikhs and Muslims....This is arse about face....it less advertising of differences rather than more that is needed..What is needed is integration...melting pot....multi culturalism has not worked in USA, Canada or UK, as the kids, only the old USA idea of melting pot worked for a few hundred years...........We don't need religion upsetting the boat and causing problems.. Mohan says Sikhs said fought well in WWII. This is true without the Sikhs the British could never have ruled India as they supplied to tools of empire for the Brits...also they pushed the japanese back in Burma..Something I know about as my Aunts partner got a posthumous VC fighting the japanese in meilkla...........However having said that..my point again is blending in not standing out..integration not isolation...peace in the home and no domestic violence...or honour killings which only attract KARMA from without... Religion is only ever about manipulation, control, and superstition...it is not a yardstick to measure good behaviour or integration..

'WESTMINSTER TIME FILES'...TONY O'CLERY.

'WESTMINSTER TIME FILES'...TONY O'CLERY. NEW SITE.... http://aoclery.yolasite.com/westminster-time-files-a-novel.php

Within illusion or mind there are divisions and dimensions.

Within illusion or mind there are divisions and dimensions..hells, lokas, patalas, heavens, planets, dimensions etc...mostly astral...people who are on the non ego spiritual path incarnate from the upper 4 lokas of the astral and the 7 lokas of the mental....Demonic leaders like fascists and communists etc or even religious demonics like a lot of islam incarnate from the darker 3 levels of the lower astral and have only interest in materialism and ego ego ego and power etc....Most countries are a mix but totalitarians have a 100% demonic/ego leadership.

Ramana Maharshi says that the Devas, Pisachas(demons), Iswaras, and all the other Astral dwellers are as real as one is and are a hierarchy

Ramana Maharshi says that the Devas, Pisachas(demons), Iswaras, and all the other Astral dwellers are as real as one is and are a hierarchy...When we get moksha all disappear of course...In the meantime these good and ego/evil spirits exist....Also Ramana says on death we go to the Astral in between human lives etc... Both Devas and Pisachas do take incarnation on the planet for their own reasons Devas to be released from their happiness and the Pisachas to experience more the material and ego....( as in leaders of PR China, Russia, Iran. Syria etc). We cannot ignore this and rely on our incredulity to let them operate without noticing. Also Pisachas are in fundy religions like violent and sharia Islam. Even Cayce in his readings spoke of the enemies of the law of one not only being politicians but also in their own religions....and his verifiable readings were over 90% correct indicating the non verfiable were as good. When the Bible and other religions talk about this being Saitan'sn plane....the inference is actually true....I don't believe in a Devil but there are Demons.... All countries are a mix but for opposites sake there are Demonic Countries...

SAMADHI ALONE CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH....Sri Ramana Maharshi.

SAMADHI ALONE CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH....Sri Ramana Maharshi...p 159. 'Be as you are'. NB.There are different levels of Samahi with and without effort culminating in Moksha or Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi...It is the going up and coming down into or through consciousness where it is revealed as samadhi is beyond consciousness and mind............................. · NirVikalpa anyway...NB Vedanta Samadhis doesn't equate with the Buddhist Samadhi's or 'States', exactly.

Ramana says when one begins to die

1. It never happened at all...........ajativada see my wikipedia entry. 2. Within illusion there is an ego and at death of the body the attributes, samskaras and memories provide the energy for a new body, any body. 3,Ramana says when one begins to die, hard breathing sets in and that means one has become unconscious of the dying body. The mind at once takes hold of another body and goes back and forth like a dream,violent breaths mean the ego or mind is coming back to the old body...This transitional state is like a dream sequence until the transition is complete. 4. Ramana says there is always a body. I suppose in any subtle plane or dimension. This period is a strange period as many have a second death where they remain in the vital body for a few days before leaving that shell and moving on..Presumably they have made the transition and are obe....

The body consists of the physical, subtle and causal

The body consists of the physical, subtle and causal...They are all part and parcel and when the physical dies the others remain....So when moody and others talk about life after death.........there is no death just dissolution of the physical form. The vital form, which looks like the physical drops in the 'second death' after a few days and then the old personality is gone and what moves on is a cloud of attributes, tendencies and memories (karma)...That it the energy for a new body any type.............Tony

Also for ordinary people that die---grieving doesn't help them it binds them.

My mother died in dementia on the 20th June in Ireland. I am not sad as she is better off than being imprisoned in a body with no mind to speak of...I am not wallowing in grief as that is attachment and self indulgence...I have no power over any action in this delusion...human love is only attachment not real love...it is just pollyanna and ego for who is it that grieves and over what? ...There is only the life-force/consciousness or siva/sakti which we all are...my mother has not gone anywhere............my mother is what i called that body...The only power i have is the power to have an opinon not change the action....People grieve because it is about THEIR LOSS THEIR ATTACHMENT NOT THE OBJECT OF LOSS...suggest reading 'I am that' by Nisargadatta Maharaj.... Also for ordinary people that die---grieving doesn't help them it binds them..After a person 'dies' the conscious mind is in the vital body for usually a few days. This body is part of the subtle and looks like the person. A demented person is no longer demented in this form so it is better to try and think about them and talk to them for the last time instead of wasting time on selfish indulgences like grief. My mother came and visited me as all my relatives seem to....and we had a short 'loving and mutually forgiving' conversation. I did not try to find her like I did her sister my aunt and found the shell of vital body as she had gone through the second death and moved on............I talked to my father in the same way when he was in the Bardo and didn't know where he was........SO DO NOT WALLOW IN GRIEF HAVE A LAST CLEAR CONVERSATION,,,,TONY.

Do not wast time in self indulgent grief

My mother died in dementia on the 20th June in Ireland. I am not sad as she is better off than being imprisoned in a body with no mind to speak of...I am not wallowing in grief as that is attachment and self indulgence...I have no power over any action in this delusion...human love is only attachment not real love...it is just pollyanna and ego for who is it that grieves and over what? ...There is only the life-force/consciousness or siva/sakti which we all are...my mother has not gone anywhere............my mother is what i called that body...The only power i have is the power to have an opinon not change the action....People grieve because it is about THEIR LOSS THEIR ATTACHMENT NOT THE OBJECT OF LOSS...suggest reading 'I am that' by Nisargadatta Maharaj.... Also for ordinary people that die---grieving doesn't help them it binds them..After a person 'dies' the conscious mind is in the vital body for usually a few days. This body is part of the subtle and looks like the person. A demented person is no longer demented in this form so it is better to try and think about them and talk to them for the last time instead of wasting time on selfish indulgences like grief. My mother came and visited me as all my relatives seem to....and we had a short 'loving and mutually forgiving' conversation. I did not try to find her like I did her sister my aunt and found the shell of vital body as she had gone through the second death and moved on............I talked to my father in the same way when he was in the Bardo and didn't know where he was........SO DO NOT WALLOW IN GRIEF HAVE A LAST CLEAR CONVERSATION,,,,TONY. NIZ says that there is no reincarnation as such....but in the unrealised there is a cloud of dreams of tendencies, attributes and memories(karma), that provide the energy for a new body.................hence a new personality etc Do not touch me as I have not yet ascended to my Father...Jesus outside the tomb to the Mary Magdalene..This is the final death experience req'd of all muktas...........

Very simply everything goes through the 3 gunas of rajas, tamas and sattva

-- Very simply everything goes through the 3 gunas of rajas, tamas and sattva continually in the universe that is what it is . It is not possible to be in one state continually ie bliss unless one is above the gunas that is a realised mukta..........very simple fact that is all............For without the disturbance of prakriti with the gunas no 'creation' would take place. I have no intention of attaching myself to 'life' the only people that i ever met who were claiming to be in 'bliss' all the time were either deluded or were phoney gurus and teachers trying to attract people to them.....to get some bliss.............as i said 3 gunas cannot be avoided, except by a mukta. Also the earth plane is an interface between the lokas and patalas or heavens and hells and therefore also is a matter of joy between two griefs..rotating...-----------even the mentally ill are bi-polar.

give up all trash you are studying

I am trying to tell you ;Give up all this trash whatever you are studying in the name of religion , in the name of spirituality . Understand only one thing ..that 'godly' principle is there, that 'I amness' or consciousness-that is the godliest of principles.It is there only as long as the vital breath is there --(-prana)..Nisargadatta Maharaj.

AGT and Sakti

Watched AGT last night and an opera singer nurse from a care home got a lot of sympathy...People sympathise with people who help others as at a deep level people know that all is one...So even though it is emotion at the evident level the ground level is Love....or Sakti not just emotion.... I am not this not this but that the consciousness and even that defers eventually to nirguna...

In the death process the ego or ahamkara reveals itself

In the death process the ego or ahamkara reveals itself as really separate from the instinctive or lower mind or manas...The instinctive-species mind will tell the body complex it is time to let go and leave and maybe stop eating and drinking like the animals do. The ego however which is a possessing entity will confuse any life as an attachment and will not let go until it is no longer pleasant or possible to remain in the dying body...in the meantime it goes backwards and forwards like a caterpillar with its feet on the new leaf and at the same time its back feet on the old leaf.We are possessed by an entity the ego a false entity....

With regard to the subtle body joining/forming with the individual jiva

Tony O'Clery With regard to the subtle body joining/forming with the individual jiva..the venarable Prof VK writes:-- Namaste The answer is contained both in Garbhopanishad (as Venkata Sriram has suggested) and also in Bhagavatam III-31. In Garbhopanishad it says: saptame mAse jIvena samyukto bhavati. In the seventh month it becomes united to the Jiva. So this is the starting point of this individualised sukshma sharira in this body. In Bhagavatam III-31 it says, Arabhya saptamAn mAsAn labdhabodhopi vepitaH , meaning, From the seventh month, he is conscious. To be conscious, he has to have a mind, and so this is the starting point of the sukshma sharira in this body. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Tony O'Clery Cayce says for example the entity may not even enter until the first 23 hour cycle around birth and even switich entities...so as with everything there is always a variable. Tuesday at 11:03am · Like · 1 Tony O'Clery I think usual is around 20 weeks to 28 weeks.... Tuesday at 11:03am · Like

Death process

Tony O'Clery The death process of ego is that the entity or cloud of attributes and tendencies and ego enter the foetus from 20 weeks to full term somewhere..sometimes in first 24 birth cycle and sometimes switch.. The child then takes years to learn how to function, attach/bond and walk etc etc. The ego is the string or sutra all the thoughts are strung along...as the person dies the entitiy starts to withdraw looking for a new body..As it does this the mind starts to lose its string and the thoughts become disorganised and random and may even seem imbalanced but is just because there is no constant driver so to speak..Also the instincts and emotions come to the fore as they are unrestricted and behaviour changes and sometimes can be violent even just as simian instincts are. Eventually the transition is made and that is what we call death.....·There is no time and the ego has to shake its attachment as it has to realise the old body cannot function to entertain the desires, attachments and needs This entity or ego goes back and forth in the transfer process to the new body and eventually the transition occurs...All this only happens as long as one thinks one is or needs a body... A body does not have to be a human simian material one...It can be subtle or interdimensional....as Ramana says 'there is always a body'. Some advanced unrealised yogis have been know to enter and revitalise a human body on the funeral pyre...and walk away rather than be reborn somewhere....This is even recorded in the annals of Alexander the Great...

Only a seeker or Sadhaka and Mukta can understand

Only a seeker or Sadhaka and Mukta can understand another sadhaka...As what you are becoming is completely anathema to ordinary people...People will regard your emotional detachment as a lack of compassion, and your lack of interest in the mundane activities of the world as hostile..........It is a lonely road and if you talk about it people will dislike or hate you as they want to remain in the pollyanna emotional delusion.....where warm fuzzies are mistaken for progress..........

When people die they either attain moksha or they enter the subtle realms of the illusion

When people die they either attain moksha or they enter the subtle realms of the illusion no matter how much they cry to Jesus or God or an alpha ape in the sky...It is only the alpha ape concept that makes them superstitious as the are full of fear as the ego is fear itself and cannot face the memories of its previous death experiences or after death rather and the hell consciousness of the omissions and deed that they themselves perceive to be right or wrong... They want imaginary god to forgive them and take them his arms and comfort them....no such luck the angels/devas and or the ghoulies are waiting for you..as you created them. This is part of the fear of death the memory of the hellish guilty consciousness and of course separation from out attachments.....................

Tony O'Clery Niz says what survives is like a cloud of attributes and tendencies and memories...Ramana goes into deeper descriptions of the death experience..and remember i was initiated by the Siddha in the ashram in the 1989..and went consciously through the dimensions and koas to 'No Mind'........
Yesterday at 9:01am · Like · 1

AHIMSA AND DAYA=MOKSHA

It looks like a small step but the step into vegetarianism is a like bridging a gulf of immense size. As the habit, addiction, alibis, and social programming is difficult to overcome as it has to do with awareness and the development of the vijnanamayakosa. It has to do with sensitivity to the suffering of an animal never mind the health issues. If one cannot have compassion for the suffering of the animal then one can never see all as one..and one only lives in the frontal lobes of illusory intelligence and ego...AHIMSA AND DAYA=MOKSHA a simple equation. If one cannot grasp that then one is condemned to live in the windmills of the mind./
Like · · 44 minutes ago

One must love the other for the 'Self's ' sak

One must love the other for the 'Self's ' sake not for ones own sake. If your friend or relative is ailing or seriously ill don't think in terms of your potential loss but have compassion for their condition. That is love otherwise fretting about your loss is attachment and selfishness.................

Selvi yes I agree and awakened
Yesterday at 12:18am · Like

Max I agree Tony true compassion has no ulterior motive. But how many of us can achieve this state???
Yesterday at 3:18am · Like
Tony O'Clery Max has to put oneself in the place of the ailing person mentally instead of in one's own selfish place....and fear of loss.....
Yesterday at 8:34am · Like
Tony O'Clery The Self i use here is the big Self or the 'Life Force', Prana or god or whatever name you give it....
Yesterday at 8:35am · Like · 1

Cathy so true
Yesterday at 1:09pm · Like

The futility of human existence

The futility of human existence is in cycles; nothing is ever permanently changed for the good like the humanists expect...Procrastination is the thief of time but Hope is the thief of sadhana and moksha....Human nature will never change as long as the dog's hind leg is bent...For humans carry with them all the vasanas and tendencies of the animals they once were, without instinctual seasons. The Ego itself is really the reactiv defence mechanism to identify 'who' is getting hurt of experiencing. This in turn is amplified and misused by the human mind. This may seem cynical the obvious is often cause....; That we are an interface between the lokas and patalas and mixture of joy and grief, both of which we have to rise above...For why would the Devas take birth so they can overcome their happiness....If there is any reason at all for human simian existence it is to realise the futility of human existence....only Mosha is the escape.

Kevala NirVikalpa Samadhi is the Royal Road

Every occupation we have, every interest, every business, every hobby, every course of study, every religion, every use of mind is just distraction....and diversion...Only Kevala NirVikalpa Samadhi is the Royal Road.

If one must the only thought and speech to take not of is 'Who am I?' 'I am That'.

Then one will find nothing is happening at all.

MEXICAN BOND SCAM

THE MEXICAN BOND SCAM. Similar to the structured investment vehicle sub-prime scam.First lest dispel the delusions of Billions of dollars and Trillions and Quadrillions. This not money but digitals it cannot be taken out of the country or to a bank. It is in the main fully estimated projections over a number of years like 20 or more. plus there is a 80% min humanitarian deduction. The GDP of the USA last year was 14T the whole world 40T..5 Billion will buy an aircraft carrier....so these pieces of paper are not worth that..lets get real...otherwise Mark Zuckeberg, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet could not afford one.



HERE IS THE BREAK DOWN on a trading platform
INSTRUMENT ARE MONETIZED UP TO 90% OF FACE
PLATFORM TAKES 5% OF GROSS PROFITS
80% GOES TO HUMANITARIAN EFFORTS.
IT IS IN A MONITORED SEGREGATED ACCOUNT IN THE BENEFICIAL OWNER OF THE INSTRUMENT NAME.
MONITORED BY THE FED RESERVE AND IS ACCOUNTABLE IN A DRAW ACCOUNT
OWNER OF THE INSTRUMENT RECEIVES 14% Gross.

The real street value can be seen at glabarre.com studios or on ebay and craiglist.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC31Oudc5BgMexican Government Statement on their Bonds. BONDS THAT WERE OLD DEBTIn response to numerous inquiries made to the Ministry of FinanceOffice and the Central Bank, it is public knowledge that the bondsold debt issued by the Mexican State between 1850 and 1951 todayworthless days since the deadline passed for payment, and do not giveaction or other right to its holder, which has been confirmed by the PowerFederal Judicial...So there you are they are worthless and all this broker bullshit about Hacienda quoting prices is total rubbish.. Here is a legal history on the 4 Head Presidents....an insight sent to me.... http://aoclery.yolasite.com/mexican-bond-scam.php .They do not record names at Hacienda only folio numbers as the bonds are 'Bearer Bonds', you just need sales receipts and provenance as in art and antiques.There are only about 5 real buyers who can perform in the world, and will pay the others will only use the bonds package.My friend who is an associate of Hacienda told me that he only personally knew of 10 real transactions last year and he was associated with one for 500K. He also said the Govts want to know who own the bonds and where they are at.. probably for a future re-certifying as a security at a lower price and interest. He also said the platforms are mis-appropriating the bonds...The platforms use the bonds as an agreed ‘Temporary Bridge Collateral’ to get a line of credit or loan to start a ‘Trade’, as the bond has no intrinsic value this amount is paid back from the first trades.. THIS LEAVES THE BOND STILL ALIVE AND NOT MONETISED AS IT WAS ONLY USED FOR COLLATERAL THIS MEANS IT CAN BE USED TIME AFTER TIME AND NEVER BE REDEEMED. ALSO TO DO THIS THEY DO NOT NEED THE BOND ONLY OWNER’S NAME AND FOLIO NUMER IN A KYC. Nobody complains as the IMF gets 80% of the tranches into humanitarian projects, which is a broad stroke and can involve JV and future equity for the platforms. Some so called humanitarian projects are barely that and are strictly profit making with equity and future JV profits..So getting tax breaks on the tranches from the trading.The owner will be put under a silence order and confidentiality agreement to say nothing about how much they received for the bond...which is now owned by the platform ,OR JV,for future temporary collateral. These agreements never come to light and therefore never come to your paymaster, only the owner, the platform, the compliance and some intake officers get a kick-back .THE BROKER NEVER HEARS ABOUT THE BOND AGAIN IT GOES DOWN A BLACK HOLE NOT SOLD, AS IT NEVER WAS SOLD, ONLY COLLATERALISED NOT MONETISED AS THE LOAN IS PAID BACK. THE PLATFORM DOESN’T EVEN NEED THE BOND JUST THE PACKAGE AS IN MANY CASES THERE IS A JV WITH THE LISTED OWNER. THIS IS SIMILAR TO THE SWISS BANK SCAM WHERE THEY COLLATERALISE GOLD IN THEIR BANKS WHICH IS NOT OWNED BY THEMMost brokers or intermediaries never find out who the platforms are or their names so they can never follow up the scam or rort... Matrix 7 is one which my Hacienda Associate told me is owned by the Bush Family...and another was called Prakash Platform but there are thousands of them.YOU MUST ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION WHERE HAVE ALL THESE THOUSANDS OF BONDS GONE AND WHY YOU DON’ T KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN PAID. I PERSONALLY HAVE SUBMITTED OVER TWO THOUSAND SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS AND INTAKE OFFICERS, MANY OF THEM GET PAID ON ALMOST A SALARY TO COLLECT PACKAGES FOR THE PLATFORMS...ANYONE WITH A SECURITIES TRADING LICENSE CAN BE A PLATFORM.In this way it is similar to the siv subprime scam, where packages were sold all around the world without paperwork from the mortgage.................NB. The four head President bond the platforms want has NO FOLIO NUMBER yet they deal with it. How can compliance possible be done on a bond that cannot be traced as real? This is more evidence of a scam in the platforms...Also I believe the 1843 27500 pesos Black Eagle was never ever issued by Mexico? But was a fake based on the 20,000K I actually have a jpeg on how it was done...I was informed that the 4headed was actually redeemed and destroyed years ago...These fake bonds and notes discovered in Italy to the value of 6T are more than likely laundered as temporary bridging collateral through the trading platforms.. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/italy-police-seize-6-trillion-of-fake-u-s-treasury-bonds-in-switzerland.htmlScammers blacklist on ppp etchttp://insidetradellc.com/forum/fraud-protection/23-blacklist-private-placement-brokers-traders-avoid.html I will be eventually adding a forum where people can give their opinons on intake officers, buyer's reps, and even platforms, performing or not., plus opinons on intermediaries in the Mexican Bond business will also be added......... pleiadesventures@yahoo.comThe Rogues and liars and bulldust artists will be named in a non libelous way.






Name those that are slow or never get back or deals disappear or are telling patent untruths. 1. A platform that Michael Alf and Mary de P were next to, took dozens of my bonds and couldn't perform at all even lost 50+ bonds from the Maori Nation to another buyer----useless..Rating Zero out of 10.2. Platform next to Jodie also had dozens of bonds in Prakash Platform and the Bush Family Matrix 7....useless could not perform.Rating Zero out of 10.3. Platform that Val Pa, Joe B and Don To were next to could not perform on over 2000 bonds. Even kept 17 Blueberries for a month and then returned them out of date...probably took the CIS, the sellers name and bond folio number and traded anyway and ripped everybody off. If I can prove they ripped me off a full report will be going into the SEC and FBI. To also told me that one seller of mine from South America was blacklisted and turned down 10BBs--..I found out she was not blacklisted, and was quite acceptable at other platforms and intakes.. This particular group do not get back, cannot work zips, and out of over 2000 bonds may be got back on less than a handful. Leaving the situation wide open to abuse as one never knows what happened to their submissions...I still have no report on bonds gone into ppp supposedly...I will never put any bonds in there and advise others not to...They are my worst experience on the net with bonds by far...most have been there up to three years and never been paid...Also by omission they 'forgot' to tell me that they were not direct to the buyer and it wasn't until months later that Val Pa admitted that he was not direct to the buyer but two away!Ratings Zero out of 10.Ratings Zero out of 10.4. Another non performing platform was next to Fred Bo and was next to a certain Simone B..they could not do anything at all complete non performers.Rating Zero out of 10.




Everything is always secret and secrecy usually means something wrong...are banks secret about their names? A lot of platforms are just 4 guys in the underwear sitting around the kitchen table with a connection to a 'trader'..So not all brokers mentioned is it personal it is a way of identifying the platform only which is what the platforms want a buffer. So I not condemning the brokers mentioned as they are conned just like the rest of us. Intakes AND DIRECT BROKERS are different they are retained by the platforms and probably paid.I was forced to go to other more likely intakes...direct to Beijing and Zurich, but on PPPs.ALSO BAD SELLERS SHOULD BE LISTED...Not just those 'blacklisted' by the platforms...Now especially of new SEC rules on them...IE..The bond the consultant and the bad seller will all be blacklisted by the SEC itself...I don't know how this would affect other work in commodities...I will invite a list of those that have wasted my time so later brokers don't waste theirs, others will be added from my own experienceI personally have been called by the FBI in Washington State, twice, to surrender emails on a broker they were investigating--so I know they are active. I surrendered the emails of course..[4:17:15 PM] J Got this back earlier today:[4:17:16 PM] J " A trader can not use the bond without the owners approval, for collateral or for anything else. IF you go to a bank with just a folio number, the bank will have to see the bond. that is why banks ask for skr, or ownership. the owner has to approve all that goes on with bonds according to the SEC attorney i just spoke with."[4:17:22 PM] Tony O'Clery: my article has ruffled a few feathers but they haven't been paid either just cult like thinking.[4:20:33 PM] Tony O'Clery: that is a lot of crap...these are no good at the bank as they are not securities they are a treaty asset ruled on by a us district court...YOU CANNOT TAKE AN PIECE D'ART TO THE BANK. The sec attorney is talking out of his arse...they are not securities so do not come under sec actually...only when used as temp bridge collateral... They are supposed to have the bond but the lender may lend without it as the bond is worthless anyway...they get their money back straight away asap. how do they lend on a 4 head prez with no folio number as it was burned long ago...or a 27500 that was never issued by mex govt.??????????????? would you take a dollar bill without a number? some say the folio number is in the water mark on the back but all the interest payment coupons have been used as well. it is all a scam and there is probably a lot more going on that we don't know.... they want the tax dodge on the humanitarians and we know that is a broad brush...and they want an excuse to get hold of lines of credit to trade...they don't trade the bond it is useless.: if the platform has the package what is stopping them using the folio number etc later with a 'cooperative lending officer'. it is returned in the first tow tranches anyway...and all[4:25:28 PM] Tony O'Clery: but their responses are interesting...where is bernie madoff?[4:28:01 PM] J: <<< bernie madoff?ha - yeah! he would have loved this one no jail,,,,just like subprime no jail.Genuine market prices with kyc of bonds..... http://www.glabarre.com/item/So_Called__Blueberry____The_Banco_Central_Mexicano___Price_Upon_Request/2714Comments: From topix forum on mexican bonds; "" IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF EVER PURCHASING THESE BONDS. IF ANYTHING THEY WILL GET YOUR PACKAGE USE THE NUMBER LOCK IT IN AND COMMENCE TRADING WITHOUT EVER PAYING YOU ANYTHING. ALL""Extract off a forum....(I did not write this)...byMIDDLE MEN WILL NEVER GET PAID...Seattle.WA. He obviously is frustrated by the situation... YOU HAVE SO MUCH GREED AND DEMISE CIRCLING AROUND THESE BONDS. THE CHINESE WON'T PAY YOU ONE PENNY. EVERY COMPLETE PACKAGE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE ENDS WITH THE SAME EXCUSE. I HAVE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND IN THE BOND BUSINESS FROM THE DAY THEY BEGAN THERE TRIALS OF ENTICEMENTS. IF YOU CONTINUE WORKING THE BOND BUSINESS YOU WILL CONTINUE MAKING THE PRICIPLES RICHER. YOU WILL NEVER MAKE ONE CENT! THEY WILL TELL YOU IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO RECEIVE MORE THAN $100.000 INTO YOUR U.S. BANK ACCOUNT.THEN THEY WILL TELL YOU THEY CAN'T PAY YOU BECAUSE THE BANKS ARE IN A WORLD MEETING CHANGING TO THE NEW BUYING PERCEEDURES. LIES UPON LIES ON TOP OF MORE LIES! SOME OF THE MOST EXPEREINCED BROKERS ARE GETTING FOOLED BY ALL OF THE HYPE. YOU HEAR STORIES OF SELLERS TURNING DOWN QUADS OF MONEY. WHY? BECAUSE NONE OF THE BROKERS WILL EVER SEE ONE DOLLAR. SELLERS ARE TOLD TO LIE IF THEY ARE TO GET PAID. SO WHAT DO THEY DO? THEY TELL YOU THE WILDEST STORIES AND YOU BELIEVE THEM WHILE REMAINING TO BRING IN PACKAGES ONLY TO HEAR THE SAME STORIES WITH A LITTLE DIFFEERNT PILE OF MARLARKY ATTACHED TO IT. REST ASSURED FOLKS, YOU WILL SPIN YOUR WHEELS NIGHT AND DAY WITHOUT EVER BEING COMPESATED.WATCH OUT FOR THOSE WHO WILL CUT YOU OUT AS QUICK AS THEY WILL ROB THEIR OWN MOTHER. HAVE YOU HEARD OF THOSE CLAIMING TO DO MORE OF THE WORK ONLY TO STEAL THE DEAL FROM YOU. HAVE YOU BEEN PROMISED TO SPIT ALL COMMISSIONS EQAULLY TO FIND OUT LATER SOME GREEDY S.O.B. SNUCK HIS WAY THROUGH TO YOUR SOURCES TO BE ABLE TO CLAIM DOING MORE WORK. THE BANKS ARE LAUGHING AT ALL OF YOU IDIOTS!YOUR ALL A BUNCH THIEVING A-HOLES! IF NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A PROOF OF FUNDS, IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF EVER PURCHASING THESE BONDS. IF ANYTHING THEY WILL GET YOUR PACKAGE USE THE NUMBER LOCK IT IN AND COMMENCE TRADING WITHOUT EVER PAYING YOU ANYTHING. ALL OF THOSE SELLERS WHO HAVE TURNED IN PACKAGES ONLY TO HEAR THE EXCUSE OF YOUR PACKAGE HAS BEEN SEEN TOO MANY TIMES AS YOUR TOLD YOU HAVE BEEN DENIED IS FALSE. SOMEONE IS BEING PAID FROM YOUR PROPERTY AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW IT BECAUSE OF THEIR NEW MADE UP LAWS THAT SAYS BROKERS CAN'T BE PAID FOR REASONS OF NOT HAVING A SECURITY LICENSE OR OTHER BOGUS REASONS THEY MAKE UP ON A DAILY BASIS! SORRY TO BUST ALL OF YOUR BUBBLES BUT YOUR ALL CROOKS ANYWAY AND NONE OF YOU DESERVE TO GET PAID.I'M SURE YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE WORST AND SIDING WITH THE WORST IN NEVER WANTING TO TRULY FOLLOW THROUGH ON COMPESATING THOSE WHO HAVE BROUGHT YOU THE DEAL IN THE FIRST PLACE.EXTRACT FROM INT'L TREATY AND FED RULES:2008. Also pop must be done before pof................This is a very important message to anyone involved in the commodities industry on the new measures with respect to Buyers and Sellers conducting oil and other commoditiestransactions. From now on, if an ICPO, LOI, RWA, or BCL is issued and thedocument is not real, the Buyer will be able to inform to theFBI, ICC, and INTERPOL. In addition, after an FCO is sent to the Buyer, there should be a formal answer to Seller from Buyer. If there’s no response from the Buyer in a timely manner, the buying company will be reported to the FBI, ICC, and INTERPOL. If this action is repeated by sellers, they too will also be reported for abuse of the NCND, LOI, ICPO, AND RWA OR BCL,FOR THIS IS A FEDERAL OFFENSE. It is important to transmit this to all clients that work with providers that are members of the ICC, FBI, and other international organizations. From this point forward, the international codes will bestrictly enforced to exclude all intruders that send out false information. Those who submit a false NCND/IMFPA, LOI, ICPO, RWA or BCL, or FCO, as well as FALSE PROOF OF PRODUCT(POP), WILL BE CHARGE WITH A CRIME. This went into effect on November 15, 2008 after a meetingwas held between the Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Interpol, Federal Bureau of Investigation and CentralIntelligence Agency. The reason for this measurement is to protect thecommodities industry which is a fundamental part of the world’s economy.I have read and understood the severity of the warning above and do realize the serious impact that pertains to alloil and other commodities transactions.ENTRY ON FAKE BONDS AND FAKE EUROCLEAR DOCUMENTS..Today fake BCV bonds are the latest scams. You can purchase Fake Euroclear documents with a REAL ISIN number in anyones name WITH supporting BCV documents for around $30K USD. For awhile, people where going around printing fake BGs from HSBC and Barclays.Now, they are trying to print fake BCVs and Mexican historical bonds. Historical bonds cannot be secured for a line of credit. A real trading transaction is ONLY triggered by CASH. Some brokers claim to trade historical bonds but I assure you its part of a scam as not one trading bank anywhere in the world is using collateral in the form of a historical bond..Scammers can't fake real bank to bank communications and that's where they fall short and the scam ends and the same deals keep circulating just with different names.Of course the bond itself is not used as collateral to trade but only to get a temporary line of credit..which is bought back quickly as the bond is worthless. http://aoclery.yolasite.com/mexican-bond-scam.php LIST OF SCAMMERS FALSE INTAKES AND CIRCUMVENTERS AND GENEOLOGY CLEANERS... A list of bad intermediaries will be placed here....you can submit evidence to me at pbinc_2@yahoo.com 5. Elayne and Bill Rubin....I sent a bond to and the seller Mr Huizing got back to me and told me that somebody had tried to wipe my name off the geneology and then took it to Mayfair a known non performer...Don Manzano was perhaps not next to the chinese redemption in this case but bloody mayfair in the caymans.