No personality takes rebirth...it is all illusion.

>
> My question is on re-birth. I am convinced of all principles of Advaita. I
understand well that there is one substratum, one consciousness and one Brahman.
I also understand Tat Tvam Asi.
>
> The only issue I have is about Punar Janma. Punar Janma is not included in any
advaitic principle, to my little understanding.

Namaste S---lji,

No personality takes rebirth...it is all illusion. Having said that and
attributing some validity to illusion whilst one is in it so to speak; Some form
of rebirth of memories/samskaras/vasanas provide the energy for a new
body.....Nisargadatta Maharaj says they are like memories in a cloud...The new
personality forms from the time the child becomes aware of itself and the
ahamkara or ego develops so to speak...So all is based on this
phantom..........There is no reincarnation in my opinion and from what I have
learned from NIZ...Cheers Tony.

Namaste Tonyji,

When a baby is born to a particular parents he gets identified with the parents. The child will have his siblings and when he grows up will have his friends and then marry and have his separate family. He will grow old and his hair will grey. Then he will die. Now let us say that this person will take another birth but he may not have his same parents in his next birth nor have the same siblings nor have the same wife and family with children. Even his name may change. So even if he is reborn he will be born with a different identity. Thus the same personality is not reborn as there is a change which continues even on rebirth. That is why the rebirth is not the reappearance of the person with the same physical or mental make up. Once you accept this then only you will be able to accept the next step of how the rebirth takes place. There are several good books on the theory of rebirth. One particularly I liked was "Theory of Rebirth: Being a treatise on Indian Philosophy." Written, edited, and translated by Radhanath Phukan, M.A., B.L.

Regads,

S

The futility of human existence is the pursuit of pleasure,

The futility of human existence is the pursuit of pleasure, in the main, through lifetime after lifetime; The satisfying of the ego and senses over and over and over and over ad infinitum, through pralaya after maha-pralaya, through eternity in dimension after dimension, planet after planet....plane after plane. As Ramana says' there is always a body'..., for the desire egos. The cessation of this Dukkha only comes with Moksha. Otherwise one continually builds families, possessions, desires, achievements for a phantom that continues living and living and living, with no respite.

Pleasure is a distraction from the illness or disease of birth.

Even the Devas take incarnation to free themselves from their happiness.........



All this built upon a child upon whom the ego or ahamkara has arose....



Maharj say so called rebirth is the like a cloud of memories providing the energy for a new existence.

Surrender once for all and be done with the desire.

Bhagavan:

Surrender once for all and be done with the desire. So long as the sense of doership is retained there is the desire; that is also personality. If this goes the Self is found to shine forth pure. The sense of doership is the bondage and not the actions themselves.

“Be still and know that I am God.” Here stillness is total surrender without a vestige of individuality. Stillness will prevail and there will be no agitation of mind. Agitation of mind is the cause of desire, the sense of doership and personality. If that is stopped there is quiet. There ‘Knowing’ means ‘Being’. It is not the relative knowledge involving the triads, knowledge, subject and object.

source: Talk 354

Bhagavan also added, “We have to contend against agelong samskaras.

Bhagavan also added, “We have to contend against agelong

samskaras. They will all go. Only, they go

comparatively soon in the case of those who have already

made sadhana in the past, and late in the case of the others.”

In this connection I asked, “Do these samskaras go gradually

or will they suddenly disappear one day? I ask this, because

though I have remained fairly long here I do not perceive

any gradual change in me.”

Bhagavan asked, “When the sun rises, does the darkness go gradually or all at once?”

Source: Day by Day 31-3-1945 afternoon

Ashtavakra said: Bondage is when the mind longs

Ashtavakra Gita--Bondage translated by john richards....

Ashtavakra said:

Bondage is when the mind longs for something, grieves about something, rejects something, holds on to something, is pleased about something or displeased about something. 8.1

Liberation is when the mind does not long for anything, grieve about anything, reject anything, or hold on to anything, and is not pleased about anything or displeased about anything. 8.2

Bondage is when the mind is tangled in one of the senses, and liberation is when the mind is not tangled in any of the senses. 8.3

When there is no "me," that is liberation, and when there is "me" there is bondage. Consider this carefully, and neither hold on to anything nor reject anything. 8.4

Watching the grief and vicarious grief about Norway shows just how self indulgent

Watching the grief and vicarious grief about Norway shows just how self indulgent and emotionally incontinent we are in the west....In somalia a woman who has lost say 3 children is much more accepting and stoic,,,,
3 hours ago · Privacy: · Like ·

Peter I think you'll find that , is the way , she deals with her grief , in the numbness and shock , that follows loss of a loved one !

Tony O'Clery Yes that can be also true in most circumstances but in countries were death is not hidden away in a nursing home or hospital it is as natural as the leaves falling in Autumn...These societies have a completely different attitude to our 'hide death' and create a heaven on earth....They are more true unto themselves.......
We make the mistake of transferring our ideas from out perverted and diverted society on to people living in a more natural society....They are more stoic and surrenedered we are self indulgent wallow in grief and joy....even vicariously for attention.

I think Vedantists doesn't approve of me taking the idea of illusion a step further than appearance.

Namaste,

I think Vedantists doesn't approve of me taking the idea of illusion a
step further than appearance....for appearance needs a mind and Brahman cannot
have duality so appearance also never happened.. I know the path they has gone
down very well....go to the advaitin groups and advaita sites and you will see
more of them....but it leads nowhere for it is all in the mind discussing the
mind...and people like to own their concepts....Also a teacher shouldn't really
be a teacher unless they have achieved what it is they are teaching, although it
is a a maxim if you can't do something then teach it...
Whether all these ideas are pointers or not they have come about due to the body
and consciousness manifesting in it...the son of a barren woman...The have all
come about because a child noticed that it existed and built on
that.............consciousness has originally forced itself on unawareness and
then on the child...As NIZ said it is all trash this religious and spiritual
study, and all the actor philosophers....there is only to recognise the I
amness.....a feeling not a mantra and realise that...

I don't think for one moment that I have gone a step further than sankara...he
didn't go beyond appearance as they wouldn't grasp it...Nir Vana means- no
sample Nir Guna means -beyond...

This is the only entry or writing besides discussion groups that I have
composed....Why? Because I am not realised and have vasanas so I am not
qualified to teach or be a sadguru....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajativada

avidya is at the individual level

avidya is at the individual level maya is the universal level...ahamkara has to be eliminated a thorn to remove a thorn...realisation is just overcoming ones vasanas.

http://bhagavan-ramana.org/ashtavakragita.html

http://bhagavan-ramana.org/ashtavakragita.html

-Give up all this trash, whatever you are studying

I am trying to tell you ---Give up all this trash, whatever you are studying in the name of religion , in the name of spirituality. Understand only one thing -That godly principle is there..that 'I amness', or consciousness-that is godliest of prinicples. It is there as long as the vital breath or life force is there...Maharaj.
15 hours ago · Privacy: · Like ·

Visitor: Is God apart from the Self?+URLs

Visitor: Is God apart from the Self?
Bhagavan: Ramana---The Self is God. “I AM” is God. “I am the Self, O Gudakesa!” (Ahamatma Gudakesa).
This question arises because you are holding the ego self. This will not arise if you hold the True Self. For the Real Self will not and cannot ask anything. If God be apart from the Self He must be a Self-less God, which is absurd.

source: Talk 363

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Ramana-Maharshi/Meditation-Experiences.htm

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Ramana-Maharshi/Self-Inquiry.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXlV8cI-ds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-OS8LU6JW8&feature=related

When Niz talks of the life force and worshipping

When Niz talks of the life force and worshipping that, he calls it Krishna, or Christ Principle along with consciousness...So people who worship forms or Istadevatas are actually putting a name and a form on the life-force....

Just thinking of Casey Anthony trial.

Just thinking of Casey Anthony trial... Niz Maharaj says that psychiatrists will not really be able to help people until they know what the mind is..........

The Secret of Liberation...ia the Birth Principle..NIZ...This is all you need!!!!

The Secret of Liberation...ia the Birth Principle..NIZ...This is all you need!!!!
by Tony O'Clery on Friday, July 15, 2011 at 3:30pm

Only one in a crore, (10million),persons can find out what the birth principle is. And once you know it is everything, all knowledge belongs to you-even liberation is yours.......Nisargadatta .Maharaj....



The birth principle is Turyia.........Turiya is the 'I Am'..It is the witness state...it is Saguna........Tony .



Turiya is the 4th state above waking, dreaming, and deep sleep...above Turiya is Turyiatita or Nirguna...



I have put this in a note as it is the secret of liberation and it is so simple..........following the teachings of Niz...concentrate on the 'I Am'...excluding all else...develop that feeling that all is one and all is you....Koham -who am I? Soham--I am He!....I Am Siva -Sivoham...To slip iinto the parlance of Ramana Maharshi...one must go into samadhi....NirVikalpa Samadhi as that is Turiyatita....however most cannot hold it due to scum on the pond preventing the relfection of the sun or vasanas. I personally cannot truly hold it for much more than half an hour...or less than an hour anyway...Once one can hold the state permanently it is, to quote Ramana.. No longer Kevala but Sahaja NirVikalpa Samadhi...or realisation, liberation, Moksha, or whatever term you wish to use to grasp it...Moksha is Moha Kyshaya or delusion destroyed...



In order to understand Maharaj...he says one must worship the vital force that prana...that meditation is necessary. Presumably as it is the kinetic side of consciousness and is within our grasp....All this comes from Maharaj and Ramana.....Tony.

To save time and posts..A true Guru or Sadguru is a realised person

To save time and posts..A true Guru or Sadguru is a realised person or a Mukta...all else are just actors entertaining. To be a Mukta a person must go through real death experience like Jesus, Ramana, Maharaj etc....and be able to teach in silence..........simple as that.
e ·

Tony O'Clery This does not mean there aren't sincere non realised teachers, who admit they are not realised and rely directly on the sayings and teachings. However being realises is like being outside the bottle...and inside the bottle there are those at the bottom of the liquid and some floating at the top.....but they are all in the bottle of non realisation and illusion...and the floaters cannot show the way out

Nisargadatta Maharaj on the non realised teacher/philosophers.

Nisargadatta Maharaj on the non realised teacher/philosophers.
by Tony O'Clery on Thursday, July 14, 2011 at 7:39am

Nisargadatta Maharaj on the non realised teacher/philosophers.



"Talking about philosophers, all these philosophers what are they doing? They are only acting philosophy!"





Note. The fact that these non realised teachers are only acting means they have no power, they do not have the working Saktipat of the Self. They are superfluous. as the real teachings and recordings of the Muktas are extant. They are the blind leading the blind, they charge money or accept donations, for their plagiarised unrealised wisdom. I have already posted what Papaji said about his disciples who teach----that they are not even a little bit enlightened.

A lot of the Indian gurus like the late sai baba, or the present bhagavan and amma or one university and many others work psychologically. That is they get the devotees to take their images into their minds. They get the devotees to transfer or displace the fake gurus image on to their inner mind, so worship and pray to..as their own higher self....This is a well known trick in India that is well known to many...Westerners have no idea at all.....Once the image has been put on the devotees inner mind it is hard to remove, as the inner mind usually has no image. The fake guru becomes part of the devotees psyche..........

In the practise of meditation this life force gets purified

In the practise of meditation this life force gets purified and the light of the Atman shines forth. However the working principle is still the life force and the light of the Self merge into each other, then the concept, imagination, or mind, everything is held in abeyance...Maharaj.

Some basic points...1.Within illusion there is only karma and prana in the universe.

Some basic points...1.Within illusion there is only karma and prana in the universe.


Some basic points...1.Within illusion there is only karma and prana in the universe. Prana or the life force and consciousness of 'I Am' are not really separate..prana is just the kinetic of the consciousness....We are not just pranis but Praneaswara. 2.Only a being that has realised they are the real 'I Am' is qualified to teach...the rest are just speculation and entertainment...at the lowest level of speech or vocality...Only a mukta has the Saktipat of the Self....of which they control.3. There is no separate god apart from ourselves..we are all praneaswara...What people worship is the life force...which is love, and energy and consciousness all in one.................

Important Couplets From Vedanta Panchadasi By Sri Vidya

Important Couplets From Vedanta Panchadasi By Sri Vidya
by Tony O'Clery on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 at 12:17pm

Important Couplets From Vedanta Panchadasi By Sri Vidya

XIV. THE BLISS OF KNOWLEDGE

13. As water does not stick to the leaves of a lotus so after realisation future actions cannot stick to the knower.

15. Sri Krishna says: ˜Just as a blazing fire reduces the fuel to ashes, so, O Arjuna,the fire of knowledge burns up all actionsâ.

16. ˜He who has no notion of I-ness and whose mind is not tainted by desire for results of action is not really a killer even if he kills people; he is not bound by his actions.

42. Let the ignorant people of the world perform worldly actions and desire to

possess wives, children and wealth. I am full of supreme bliss. For what purpose

should I engage myself in worldly concerns ?

I asked, “But what about a pure materialist,Ramana

I asked, “But what about a pure materialist, who does not believe in God. How are we to deal with him?”
Bhagavan: He will come gradually, step by step, to find out the source of ‘I’. First, adversity will make him feel that there is a power beyond his control, upsetting his plans. Then, he will begin with rituals, ceremonial worship, and through japa, kirtan, dhyana, go on to vichara...Ramana


That was my own route and in the end found there was no separate god....either...Just the Self and ultimately NirGuna..Tony

The problem with language is that it only reflects the mind.

The problem with language is that it only reflects the mind.
by Tony O'Clery on Monday, July 11, 2011 at 9:08am

The problem with language is that it only reflects the mind.....so words like enlightenment or realisation are just words to describe a non existent event. So there is no word for it. We are already enlightened....we are like ponds with scum on..remove the scum/vasanas of desire mind and the pond reflects the sun...The Guru is actually the Inner Sadguru or Self...the outer Guru is the same Self a Mukta--Guru-Self, working through a different illusory body than yours...One is pulling and the other is pushing so to speak but it is ever the same Sadguru. One's own pond has scum on it but the Guru's doesn't so reflects the sun/Self

The body is an organism that will function its own way we are almost possessors, of it. The built up egoic mind entity occupies the natural body as a tool to enjoy and prolong pleasures and sense stimulation. Most people don't get any more enlightened as they age, they just get older with their bucket of desires still full.

Anything of mind is illusion...Truth cannot be spoken of as it then becomes a concept it can only be apperceived. Even, consciousness-prana, the Self, 'Awareness and Being', are all illusory Saguna....for where are they in NirVikalpa Samadhi?????????Nir Vana, Nir Viklpa, Nir Guna are all ways of decribing neti neti to the fullest......One last point -the human body/mind doesn't create a guru to follow,,that is also a form of body consciousness that some cannot shake off from their speculations...The answer is Ajativada as is my entry on wikipedia.

Nisargadatta Maharaj on Self euthanasia..

Nisargadatta Maharaj on Self euthanasia...............
by Tony O'Clery on Friday, July 8, 2011 at 3:31pm

Q. Is it obligatory to live out one's natural life span?

M. Natural -spontaneously -easy-yes. But disease and suffering are not natural. There is noble virtue in unshakable endurance of whatever comes but there is also dignity in the refusal of meaningless torture and humiliation....



Maharaj's body suffered with cancer in its last stages...but there was nobody home to accept the pain...
When you are awake you are consciousness when you are asleep you are only alive. Consciousness and and life---both you may call god but you are beyond god beyond being and not being....Maharaj.

"Pre-occupation with theory, doctrine and philosophy can actually be harmful,

"Pre-occupation with theory, doctrine and philosophy can actually be harmful,
insofar as it distracts a man from the really important work of spiritual
effort, by offering an easier alternative which is merely mental, and which
therefore cannot change his nature."

(says Arthur Osborne in: The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi in His own Words,
Chap.1)

Without the body, the world is not.

Without the body, the world is not.
Without the mind, the body is not.
Without awareness, there is no mind.
And without being theris no Awareness.

Verse 99 - Guruvachaka kovai

Before volunteering for Abyssinia my father had a relationship with a German girl in Bavaria

Note *3. Before volunteering for Abyssinia my father had a relationship with a German girl in Bavaria...Munich I believe, although he visited at Nuremberg as well..Apparently he traveled backwards and forwards from the UK. On his last occasion there he was having a meal in a restaurant when two men, dressed in trilby brimmer hats and long leather coats, stood in the door way and shouted out his name. The Gestapo had come for him and it seems they didn't approve of his relationship with the German girl...whether it was due to the fact of his mother's Jewish family or the girl's I don't know. He was probably lucky he was an Neutral Irish National, for otherwise he may have been detained, although at this stage Britain and the UK were not at war.. The Germans had the name of every Jewish person and family in the British Isles going back to a grandparent to qualify. My father's mother would have been regarded as 100% due to her mother's status, at the very least, making myself, and siblings and cousins, also a candidate qualifying for the camps at Auschwitz and elsewhere...The Germans on the conquest of the British Isles were going to round up all the Jews and deport them to the camps along with other such as Communists etc..Bavaria would have been handy for the Gestapo as that was were Dachau, and Flossenberg, were situated; so my father's Irish Nationality saved him from going to that local concentration camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

http://www.thirdreichruins.com/flossenburg.htm
Dachau concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org
Dachau concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager (KZ) Dachau, IPA: [ˈdaxaʊ]) was the first Nazi concentration camp opened in Germany, located on the grounds of an abandoned munitions factory near the medieval town of Dachau, about 16 km (9.9 mi) northwest of Munich in the state of Bavaria, whi

note with urls on debunking tolle

note with urls on debunking tolle
by Tony O'Clery on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 at 8:52am

I will save these urls on exposing tolle as a note.



They are written in an everyday understanding....but they do serve as an indication of what non realised teachers do and can do...........and of course the naivety of oprah perhaps............





http://www.blacksunjournal.com/books/1844_debunking-the-power-of-now-introduction_2009.html



http://www.businessninja.co.za/eckhart-tolle-power-of-now-fraud-charlatan.php

The test for a realised person is

I'll say it again Maharaj says you can only talk of what you 'know'. So all the unrealised teachers, mooji, tolle, gangaji, cohen, etc etc etc...are really only entertainers and only know intellectually more than others -perhaps.-may be useful to neophytes who are unaware of real Mukta Sadgurus...



The test for a realised person is -1. A literal death experience, not a dream or visualisation. Jesus,Maharaj,Ramana,Lakshmana Swamy, Mathru Sri Sarada, Sri Ramakrishna all died and were resurrected as the Self.



2. Be able to teach with silence...As Lakshmana Swamy still does....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-BeVGCINic



The realised Muktas have the Saktipat/Energy of the Self which is out of space and time and distance and is in their very words...

Carmen -- Why did Ramana say that we have to only remove the false idea of being not realized? Or do you think once we remove that false idea we will die?
11 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery The ego will die....the body will continue on if necessary...with the universal consciousness..However apparently all realised muktas go through a real death experience as the body loses the ego...Just as a normal body dies when the ego leaves at what humans call death...but the mukta resurrects as the Self.
2 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery I only post this as so many follow entertainers and false prophets as Jesus calls them...or actors as maharaj calls them...and there are extant teachings that make the intermediary teachers superfluous and in the main self serving.
a few seconds ago · Like

Maharaj and the necessary 'death experience' for realisation.David Godman.

Maharaj and the necessary 'death experience' for realisation.David Godman.
by Tony O'Clery on Friday, June 24, 2011 at 5:06pm

At some point Maharaj asked him, 'Have you witnessed your own death?' and Rudi replied 'No'.



Maharaj then launched into a mini-lecture on how it was necessary to witness one's own death in order for there to be full realisation of the Self. He said that it had happened to him after he thought that he had fully realised the Self, and it wasn't until after this death experience that he understood that this process was necessary for final liberation. I hope somebody recorded this dialogue on tape because I am depending on a twenty-five-year-old memory for this. It seems to be a crucial part of Maharaj's experience and teachings but I never heard him mention it on any other occasion. I have also not come across it in any of his books.



Maharaj continued to pester Rudi about the necessity of witnessing death, but Rudi kept quiet and just smiled beatifically. He refused to defend himself, and he refused to be provoked. Anyway, I don't think he was in any condition to start and sustain an argument. Whatever state he was in seemed to be compelling all his attention. I got the feeling that he found articulating even brief replies hard

The child is loved most whilst the Sun of the Self

The child is loved most whilst the Sun of the Self is not obscured by the clouds of ego...ie. in the first couple of years or so.

The hardest shell to crack is the shell of pollyanny emotional sentiment and attachment mistaken for Love. The next hardest thing is to shake the belief that pleasure is a good thing, and we should indoctrinate our kids/pet humans in this.We love our kids as they mirror us and we want them to be little pet humans that grow up mini-mes and we get pleasure from observing similarities.

I am in consciousness as the 'witness'.

I am in consciousness as the 'witness'. I am beyond it as Being. The manifested Saguna and unmanifest NirGuna are not different.........Maharaj...p92.IAT.

Q. What is fact? Maharaj. What is perceived in pure awareness unaffected by desire and fear is fact....p102...IAT...Maharaj.

When Ramana and Maharaj say do the 'Who am I? or 'I Am'...they don't mean think about what you are your small self....They mean meditation on the entire I Am of the universe or Self.

Re-birth and the memory causal body..

Re-birth and the memory causal body..


What reincarnates are the tendencies, attributes, vasanas -or memory causal body, or cloud of images..Maharaj says. Due to vibratory compensation and karma it identifies with a body in the womb at about 4 or 5 months and enters.But there is no 'I' and won't be for a couple of years after birth.. So the concept of reincarnating personality is a false interpolation.The whole construct is a hare's horn based on memory alone that ultimately doesn't exist.....

Ego and Ahamkara and infants...

Ego ego and Ahamkara and infants...


When discussing the rise of the ego or ahamkara in infants after a couple of years...one has to separate the 'defensive response mechanism' from what is termed ego...Every animal is aware of its defense response mechanism otherwise how would it know it is being attacked or hurt...THAT IS NOT AHAMKARA EGO..Humans take the response and add to it and distort it...creating the huge ego they have..A child at 18 months will talk in the third person a lot, if you notice....Also the ego of western psychology is not the Ahamkara ego...

Ego and Ahamkara and infants...

Ego ego and Ahamkara and infants...


When discussing the rise of the ego or ahamkara in infants after a couple of years...one has to separate the 'defensive response mechanism' from what is termed ego...Every animal is aware of its defense response mechanism otherwise how would it know it is being attacked or hurt...THAT IS NOT AHAMKARA EGO..Humans take the response and add to it and distort it...creating the huge ego they have..A child at 18 months will talk in the third person a lot, if you notice....Also the ego of western psychology is not the Ahamkara ego...

Maharaj says...The body has urges

Maharaj says...The body has urges.....the mind has pain and pleasures....but Awareness is unshaken and unattached.

(Problem is the mind noticing the urges and indulging them and expanding them into pleasures, resulting in eventual pain.) Tony...

Hope and compliant pleasure are the thieves of moksha.

Hope and compliant pleasure are the thieves of moksha.



People like each other because it is tribal and they share the same delusions; And it reinforces their common illusion and individual egos. This applies from the 'pet human' condition of children up to adult activities, entertainment and clubs. It is a diversion and ultimately an exercise in futility ; sharing the impossible hope of a heaven on earth instead of mayhem and chaos; And nature,karma, conquering all and adding inevitable pain. The inexerable progress of the ego going to hell in a hand basket....

As NIZ say the only so called 'god' is the vital force..

As NIZ say the only so called 'god' is the vital force...or prana....we are all praneaswara..and we are all forms of it...only one force.. So worshipping the vital force in a church or temple..or even a rock concert is no difference..........

An exercise I use is not separating the material,

An exercise I use is not separating the material, subtle and causal, as separate illusions..Otherwise one gets into material bodies and rebirth and all that when in fact the whole complex of kosas is a non happening event of the birth principle...neti neti.

The world's most egotistic and self indulgent game---GOLF.

The world's most egotistic and self indulgent game---GOLF. From a game that developed from chasing stones or balls down rabbit holes in Scotland to a business man's diversion golf is a waste. A waste of resources and water, land taken from the animals that could feed millions of starving people if used for food. Unlike the quick energy of a football game...golf requires the application and development of a strong ego sense of hours of time....just look at the kind of people who in the main follow the occupation....and see then what it is about...mostly business people and polilticians etc.

The basic attraction of human love is the ground

The basic attraction of human love is the ground or prana as we are all prani, but the ego adds attachment and distorts it into pollyanna sentimental emotionalism. Love in action is helping without thinking one is helping...

1985; With regard to my dream of being a cow in a slaughterhouse

1985; With regard to my dream of being a cow in a slaughterhouse


1985; With regard to my dream of being a cow in a slaughterhouse, and the subsequent horrific dream, that I had; I think my previous months of meditation and giving up drinking had allowed my intellectual or vijnanamayakosa to be cleaned somewhat, so it was developed enough to react to the 'dream', in a positive way and give up the hypocritical position of having 'god' in my heart and meat on my plate....In fact Ramana does say that sadhana and meditation are necessary for purification of the vasanas....but eating meat is bringing in untold millions of years of vasanas and the death process, of the animal into our own bodies...



Food affects the mind. For the practice of any kind of yoga, vegetarianism is absolutely necessary since it makes the mind more sattvic [pure and harmonious]. --Sri Ramana Maharshi.

One has no idea where we are at spiritually, as it is all in the citta vasana or subconscious mind. Every now and then one realises the purification is going on, sometimes we call the pranic cleaning of the kosas, the rise of kundalini or universal mind...

The basic attraction of human lov

The basic attraction of human love is the ground or prana as we are all prani, but the ego adds attachment and distorts it into pollyanna sentimental emotionalism. Love in action is helping without thinking one is helping...

If your guru cannot teach through silence he is just an entertainer

If your guru cannot teach through silence he is just an entertainer..any other claim is just charlatanry..there are 4 levels of speech only muktas can use the first two prior to thinking the third is mind and the most crude is sound or words..even animals can do better than that..It is the easiest yardstick...more obvious than asking for donations even....

Rafe and tony on youtube

Rafe and tony on youtube

Part One

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1bpd8N_5Y&feature=relmfu



Part Two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eIq5-f26QE&feature=channel

How CAn One Recognize a Realized Teacher or Sadguru

How CAn One Recognize a Realized Teacher or Sadguru by Tony O'Clery.

How CAn One Recognize a Realized Teacher or Sadguru by Tony O'Clery.
First of all a True Guru will call you and you will know from inside...the heart..However they usually share some common signals.

1. Teach vegetarianism .....for Daya, Ahimsa and self purification.

2. Teach recognisable Teachings from Vedanta and other Muktas. All is One and the small 'I' is false.

3. Usually they are not over active and don't travel a lot if possible....Nowhere to go!!!

4. They teach a lot by silence like Dakshinamurthi.....and are not given to long road show discourses...

5. They do not write copiously..but may answer questions.....but not usually from dilletantes..

6. Have the ability to answer obtuse questions without being tertiary educated...

7. You can usually feel their energy and they can give Diksha or initiation and Saktipat....

8. They are usually not making, generating and selling Books, DVDs, and asking for donations.

9. They are not given to siddhis and miracles although things may happen around them.

10. Regard all beings as being equal including animals.

11. Sometimes grant Moksha to animals......and advanced humans...

12. They usually prefer to more reclusive than expansive....

13. Demonstrate or advise some kind of sadhana...and meditation.

Those road show gurus are not usually Muktas and although do good work for everybody and themselves cannot impart initiation as only a Mukta with power of the Self can do that...

Of course the easiest way is to become a Mukta..............

Turn the other cheek.

Turn the other cheek.
.by Tony O'Clery on Monday, May 23, 2011 at 7:56am. Falling out and arguments with family and friends isn't about 'making up' and mending fences or giving love. It is about getting over the attachment and surrendering. Jesus' turn the other cheek isn't about non violence per se but about the absolute futility in doing anything about it all...You may as well turn the other cheek ; The cheek of detachment and non karma...that is real love not sentiment...( The point of this is the per se...what is going to happen will happen anyway, mending fences or giving 'love', is the external action and human love is mostly attachment, things should be done for the Self's sake).
Like the yogi whose coat was stolen by a thief and he ran after him to give him his second garment so he wouldn't be attached...It takes a lot of attachment and pleasure to finally realise all is insanity and dukkha and that life in total is actually death.

.

All his classics are there, including a rare one by Paul Bruton

Hi all,
Romy Thomas
I have accumulated these over time from various sources. They are good quality PDF files.
All his classics are there, including a rare one by Paul Bruton, who as you know "revealed" this Jnani to the world at large.



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N1B71C3Q

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
www.megaupload.com

Sex is the vasana

Sex is the vasana that is the Portal to the Creation Impulse of the Universe. Meditation has to reverse the Portal to achieve Realisation or Moksha.

In the end result

In the end result expecting any permanent good from illusion and its deluded inhabitants is futile...as ephemeral is what it is or isn't. All one does is allow one's mind/ego to wander out and receive temporary pleasure between two griefs...a distraction or diversion that is all...No 'good' can be created out of dream stuff.

Anything you can think

Anything you can think of, touch love, enjoy, help, console, teach, marry, bury, baptise, believe in, worship, follow is all ultmately nonsense and of the mind therefore unreal and has to be dropped.

Human evolution is away from the truth not towards it...Animals use silence and subtle telepathic imagery to communicate and only use gross sound sparingly. Humans have lost the subtle abilities and are only left with the mechanical speech and computer of the frontal lobes.

Grief comes waves

Grief comes waves as it is attached to the mind in the 3 gunas. Which cause waves and movements of the pranas. But it is the Ego mind putting on the energy, good, bad, danger, excitement, devotion whatever. Naming the un-named common energy that is..

http://toclerysguruanalysis.yolasite.com/

http://toclerysguruanalysis.yolasite.com/

At present, spirituality on the planet has divided

At present, spirituality on the planet has divided into the ancient Vedantic type science of liberation and the superficiality of Western Verbal Non-Dualism, Vindism, which like so many other 'easy mind ways' is a dead end leading only to rebirth in illusion, wandering in the forest of thought.
Mind has only one use and that is to take one to the doorstep of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, with the removal of vasanas...
People try and make illusion real and relevant, with emotional sentiment, attachment and pollyanna ideas..but one cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...it is all mind...
Any form of mind, a thought spiritual or a thought obscene, there is no difference....thought is thought ...

Forget all teachings except words of the Muktas....all else is just superfluous without Saktipat...So either get a living guru or follow the teachings of the ages..until The Self is your guru. All else is a total waste of time if you are really sincere about Moksha.

Where and when is the strongest communications between humans?

Where and when is the strongest communications between humans?
by Tony O'Clery on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 at 7:01am

Where and when is the strongest communications between humans? It is before speech-as speech brings questions and disagreements as speech is a tool of the ego.

When you open your eyes in the morning what do you see? and How do you feel? Are you looking and not recognising where you are. That is before the ego starts to run with the ego. Do you search for knowing where you are ? That is the ego trying to string thoughts on the sutra....



What do you feel? Do you have memory of Bliss if you wake from the causal state without tarrying in the dream plane? Who are you now the ego has risen and you know where you are and what you have to do and the thoughts come rushing in.

Speech and words can turn into the greatest impediment

Watch the commercials on TV-all the happy people smiling away and know so many cannot be happy all the time---know is it is a delusion of experiences and pleasures.

Speech and words can turn into the greatest impediment to realisation apparently. Hence Lakshmana Swamy and others taught through silence, which is the most subtle. So images and words are the tools of the ego, diverting one from concentrating on Kevala NirVikalpa Samadhi and Moksha.

The ill educated bhakta has the advantage of being 'light' and not heavy with weight the load of overloaded verbose intellect, full of diverse words and dialectics all providing armour the ego...

The wordy teachers and verbal non dualists or vndists are a diversion as they are tangible and people can understand and converse with them in ego diversion.However they are a complete dead end and only end up in re-birth. Even if they can reach a plane of seeming non-duality, which deceives them and their clever intellectual minds and mind awarenss, now etc etc.It is the oldest trick in the ego's book the marshalling of the ego's cohorts....

People don't really want moksha they just want to talk about it, as they are a victim of their own egos. They do this as they look at Moksha or liberation as just another experience for some kind of pleasure............

Hi, Tony. Can you talk on necessity or not of celibacy?

Elena VinogradovaTony O'Clery
Hi, Tony. Can you talk on necessity or not of celibacy? Thanks.
49 minutes ago · Like · · See Friendship

Tony O'Clery Celibacy of mind is important re karma...but in a normal relationship sex is a bodily function....celibacy is for sannyasins...I am not celibate or am I a sannyasin and I'm not realises as I am on FB.
41 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova that woman she talked about couple of married couples in her ashram, and they are celibate.
40 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery may be may be not...as Ramana said -no good being celibate if you are not celibate in the mind as well.
39 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova what is celibate in the mind for you?
37 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery No sex vasana
36 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova How do you know you don't have sex vasana? No dreams?
31 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Sanskrit for sub conscious is vasana citta....desire drives.
30 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova in pali it'a sankara/sanskara. So if no desire drives in walking or sleeping, then no sex vasana?
29 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery creation impulse....I still have it so cannot really comment on getting rid of it hahahahaah
28 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova Ok, for example, somebody old definetely doesnt have creation impulse, but it doesnt mean no sex vasana, right?
25 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery A person can be 80 years old and their bucket of desires could still be full................
24 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova exactly. so when is that one knows no sex vasana?
24 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Even old people have creation impulse as it is mind...the hormones are transducers from the kosas and tell you what to think about.
24 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery There is no sex vasana in samadhi --so one has to be in walking samadhi....moksha.
23 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova so, if no impulse to create, no sex desire in walking and sleep, then no sex vasana?
23 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova so you are saying only in moksha no sex vasana? If no moksha, then sex vasana there?
21 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Vasanas like food, sex, etc are always there to a certain extent...but can't talk to it as I am not there.
21 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Gandhiji had trouble so he slept with two girls to prove he had lost the vasana.
20 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova i see, ok, got it.
20 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Literally slept..no sex..
18 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery You can have the vasana but fry it so it is there but a burnt seed and can't resprout.
14 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova I know. serious long vipassana burn it.
13 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Yes but it has to be fried completely...not just during vipassana.
11 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery I have given up smoking, alcohol, meat eating, but whether I have the vasana unfried I don't know...as it is in the subconscious mind..or vasana citta.
10 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Only safe route is Sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi.
9 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery As sexual desire vasana can be transmuted into other urges so it is hidden, power, frustration, boredom, action etc etc....
8 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Masturbation can occur without overt sexual desire but it is still a vasana...the creation impulse...meditation is the reverse of creation.
6 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Some people wank for something to do and achieve haahahah
5 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Animals in cages masturbate on the food bowls...
5 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova hahaha
4 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery so sex and doing are inextricably linked....
3 minutes ago · Like · 1 person

Tony O'Clery so sex and doing are inextricably linked....
13 minutes ago · Like · 1 person
Elena Vinogradova So what are benefits of being naturally celibate? Are any?
9 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova What I understand it's the most harm is to tense the desire. So some paths go with expressing it fully, like tantra, right? and some frying it like vipassana.
8 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Less desire less activity and less reinforcement of the vasana, but if one is married it is impossible.....
7 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova why impossible? I met couples in vipassana, possible!
6 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery K- is the universal mind read my post today on kundalini....
6 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery possible because they said so but even they do not know how deep is the vasana...
6 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Will power can control through icca sakti...but it is not permanent.
5 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova if no desire and no impulse to recreate, they are naturally celibate
5 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery perhaps....many have fallen off the wagon.
5 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova in vipassana it's not will power - no reaction, so sensation arise
4 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova like in Gandhi
4 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery I understand vippassana....I use it but again the subconscious desire is there also the hormones.
3 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova vipassana works on the level of sub mind.
3 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery I don't know what state Gandhiji was in...no desire or icca sakti...only moksha is a guarantee.
2 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova ok
2 minutes ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Yes I know Goenka etc
2 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova i will look up your post on kundalini!
2 minutes ago · Like
Elena Vinogradova have a nice dinner! What's cooking today?
about a minute ago · Like
Tony O'Clery Don't know something vegetarian anyway....this was a good exchange---keep it as I have not done this before.
a few seconds ago · Like

This is what Meher Baba had to say about Jesus in India:

This is what Meher Baba had to say about Jesus in India:
by Tony O'Clery on Friday, April 8, 2011 at 5:23pm

This is what Meher Baba had to

say about Jesus in India:



"There is one secret about Jesus which the Christians do not know.

When Jesus was crucified, he did not die. He entered the state of

Nirvikalpa Samadhi (the I-am-God state without bodily consciousness).

On the third day, he again became conscious of his body, and he

traveled secretly in disguise eastward (with some apostles) to India.

This was called Jesus' resurrection. After reaching India, he

traveled farther east to Rangoon, in Burma, where he remained for

some time. He then went north to Kashmir, where he settled. When his

work was finished on earth, he dropped his body and entered Nirvikalp

Samadhi permanently. Saints in India have verified these facts about

Jesus' travels. Mankind will soon become aware of the true life of

Jesus." [23 August 1925, Meherabad, LM3 p752]



It is very interesting that Meher Baba, back in August of 1925,

stated that "Mankind will soon become aware of the true life of

Jesus." Other people from the East, such as Dr. Fida Hassnain,

Basharat Saleem, Shirdi Sai Baba, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, all have made

similiar statements.

http://www.tombofjesus.com/

http://www.tombofjesus.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=58

तोम्ब ऑफ़

http://www.tombofjesus.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=58

BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

This is written not to condemn meat eaters but more to explain why some are vegetarians. (Sometime back I heard on the news, that the U.K. had banned experiments on animals for cosmetics reasons. They have also banned some medical experiments that are considered unnecessary, especially those that are just done for money, like unnecessary research. At least that is a start!

However my pleasure was short lived, for whilst channel surfing, I came across a piece on T.V. that made me sit up. It was about a system where they can take a fish, partially gut it, scale it, dip it in batter and fry part of it, whilst all the time keeping it ALIVE!I t was then served up on the table with sauce, whilst the eating parties dug in with chopsticks. The family's children ran from the table for the fish was obviously alive and suffering, opening and closing its mouth. Or we have the skinning of seal cubs while still alive, the boiling of shell-fish while still alive and many other violent acts. This doesn’t include the horrors of the slaughterhouses.

All violence of any kind should be avoided except for self defence. That means in thought, word, and deed .Even making too much noise should be avoided. Humans are human animals ,aspiring human beings, human beings, and Divine Humans. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. For it has to do with the level of awareness and purification of the awareness sheath or vijnanamayakosa. A completely purified vijnanamayakosa is the sheath that a Jnani uses to relate to the world. To the human animal eating meat is probably part of it’s self developed condition .For spiritual seekers though, aspiring human beings, eating meat is a no-no and that includes fish. Swami Yogananda did say however that unfertilised eggs are alright to eat, if you really have to, free range that is. Ghandiji did eat eggs, when he was ill. Wearing leather is again debatable, for if the animal died for food the leather is something superflous. On the other hand fur is different, for the animal is killed for its skin alone. It is all in the motive, it is in the mind. We can only do the best we can and most like to do things gradually rather than not at all.

Vegetarianism for Spiritual Seekers is not primarily for reasons of health but for Spirituality. It is really a belief in Ahimsa or non-violence that is the motivating cause.

For example eating meat means accepting blame and bad Karma, probably for many lifetimes, for killing an animal and the associated suffering. It is not our Dharma to eat meat and we have caused pain and terror to the animal. Also we have sent billions of animals to the subtle plane. Many of these animals are reincarnated as humans and carry with them the resentment of their treatment and death in the slaughterhouses. This adds to bad vibrations on the planet and subsequent massacres and killings, as in Ruanda etc. Violence can be intrinsic, like banging a book down on a table, cutting down trees un-necessarily or even thinking bad thoughts.

Meat eating is a habit like smoking, drug addiction or alcoholism and it can be broken the same way; Pray, surrender to The Divine and stop. Some people may have to do it progressively; however this may only prolong the bad karma involved.

The advantages of being a vegetarian are many, apart from the effect on our health. When we eat meat we absorb animal vibrations into our own mind and body, making it more difficult to advance spiritually.

Many argue that we need meat for proteins. The humble soya can supply most dietary needs contained in meat. It takes 4 kg of fish meal to produce every 1 kg of farmed salmon. Also it takes 8kg of grain to produce 1/2kg of beef; a waste of food resources on a hungry planet .At the present time 3%-6% of North Americans and 15% of British are vegetarians. The Indian percentage would be much higher no doubt.

Meat eating leads to rajasic and tamasic tendencies but a sathwic diet consisting of vegetables, except not too many, onions, garlic chillies etc, will be conducive to a peaceful mind.

As Dr. Albert Schweitzer tells us:

"I cannot but have reverence for all that is called life. I cannot avoid compassion for everything that is called life. That is the beginning of morality. Once a man has experienced it and continues to do so he/she is ethical. He carries morality within him/her and can never lose it, for it continues to develop within him. He who has never experienced this has only a set of superficial principles.

These theories have no root in him, they do not belong to him, and they fall off him......Reverence for life comprises the whole ethic of love in its deepest and highest sense. It is the source of constant renewal for the individual and for mankind.(Respect for life is compassion, which is a prerequisite for understanding.)

(Scheitzer pp 116-177) (1)

Ghandiji said; "Cow protection is to me one of the most wonderful phenomena in human evolution. It takes the human being beyond his species. The cow to me means the entire subhuman world. Man through the cow is enjoined to realise his identity with all that lives...She is the mother to millions of Indian (and others), mankind.



We should cultivate certain desirable practices. For instance we should regulate our diet, because one’s food influences one’s thoughts. Eating animal food promotes animal tendencies. Those who take to the spiritual path should avoid as much as possible bad practices. There is no meaning in professing to respect human values without observing the rule that you should cause NO HARM to others in any form whatsoever."

.

"And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for MEAT!" Genesis 1:29. Many terms in the Bible have been mistranslated, for whatever reason. The word food has been translated as meat and as flesh even, this is to give the impression that Jesus was a meat eater. It’s interesting that in Scotland today the word meat can mean food generally, not just animal flesh. Also the word for wine mostly means unfermented grape-juice, or Must, which was what the Essenes used

"Thou shall not kill"....Bible, Ten Commandments. lo tirtzach—not kill anything.

"He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man".....Isaiah 66:3

The first of Buddhism’s Ten Precepts is, "Refrain from destroying life."

The Mahabharata, warns "Those who kill and eat cows will rot in hell for as many years as there are hairs on the slaughtered cow, "and "What greater cruelty and selfishness than to increase the flesh of one’s body by eating the flesh of innocent creatures?"

I don’t know whether you can take the Mahabharata literally but the inference is there.

If one can grasp that "all is one", then harming a being that can feel pain is harming oneself. As seekers on the spiritual path, we should avoid being responsible for other’s pain, animal or not.

. On another note, what kind of insensitivity and lack of conscious awareness, or rather conscience, allows an animal to suffer for an unholy human desire, that one hasn’t the courage or willpower to overcome. One is reduced to a state less than the animal, for even an animal keeps it’s desires in season. This was my thought about myself and I couldn’t live with that, and that is why, after reading Maxims, "in the back of a book on Hindu Spirituality," I became a vegetarian immediately. Sakti also gave me a dream, where I experienced being a cow that was led to slaughter.

The morning that I gave up eating meat I had a dream that was the
catalyst. I was visiting some family members in Sydney and I was on
Bondi Beach, I like surfing. I ate a hamburger and then fell asleep
on the beach during which time, I was given a dream. In this dream I
was actually a cow or steer or whatever, bovine anyway.
I was in the slaughterhouse, and was terrified by the cries of the
other animals waiting to go up before the human killer. The stench of blood and faeces assailed by rather large nostrils and my eyes
rolled in utter panic and fear in my head. I looked around for
someone I knew but I was alone amongst all these terrified
animals.My panic grew as I was forced between a row of gates and
down a slippy path full of blood, faeces and urine. I hesitated and
was prodded with an electric prod to make me move forward into this
tight space. Eventually I was in a kind of giant manacle which held
my head for the human killer. I was terrified and so were all the
other cattle for we knew, yes we knew.
At his point I awoke on the beach repeating 'My God they know', they
know they are going to be killed so cruelly. At that point I
resolved never to be an accomplice to the greatest holocaust of all
time, and I became a vegetarian. I'm a slow learner you see!!
There are no excuses or alibis, religious or otherwise, for "spiritual seekers, "to be meat eaters; it is also injurious to health, check out "mad cow disease or hamburger disease, or chicken flu. If you eat meat you will get animal diseases."

However as a last note, if one is a vegetarian one shouldn’t be smug about our meat eating brother or sister. I am not claiming to be a superior being and no doubt have as many desires as the next person. However I have overcome eating meat with Sakti’s Grace. You can too, if you are still a meat-eater. However you must have the belief and desire to do so, many people see nothing wrong at all in eating meat, it is their choice.

"Ananyaaschinthayantho Maam Ye Janaah Paryupaasathe Theshaam Nithyaabhiyukthaanaam Yogakshemam Vahamyaham."

"Whoever surrenders to The Lord, The Lord will take on his/her yogakshemam and provide for him/her." The Gita.9:22.

"

,
"The great sage Yagnavalkya ,in his Yagnavalkyasmiti stated that
three ghastly crimes are committed by slaughtering animals for the
sake of eating their flesh.

These are :
(1)the taking of innocent life;

(2)the infliction of pain on the innocent animal during the process
of killing it;and

(3)the crime of depriving the animal of its strength through
slaughtering it.

Punishment for all three crimes entails twenty rebirths
characterised by premature and painful death in the first;

pain ,suffering and unhappiness,including family feuds,anxiety and
tensions in the second;

poor health in which the life of the person concerned will be wasted
away,in the third."

INDIRA RADHAN. MAY 1996.

Thought itself is the problem, the impediment.

Thought itself is the problem, the impediment. One has to separate thought from mind/ego. Stop the ego stringing thoughts along the sutra of the ego. Breath control can help as it controls the prana. Meditating on one thought can open the door to beyond functional thought. Never mind worrying about 'mind awareness' and being in the 'mind now', go right to the source. Use the juncture of nose and lip concentrate there as thoughts arise dismiss them.This gives you the insight to the unreality of thought, but you are stripping the ego and it will react to protect itself. The ego will not always pretend to be non existent and give an illusion of non duality.It has to be occupied so one can use exercises like Japa, so the monkey mind is trapped.. As monkeys are caught with pots that once the put their hand into, to get the treat, they are caught. Why because like the mind the monkey won't let go of the treat so is trapped by its own desire or vasana..Eventually the mind will be trained and that is the door to NirVikalpa Samadhi. However the gap between Kevala Nirvikalpa and Sahaja Nirvikalpa/Moksha is huge. Somewhat getting to a stage where you know what a king is and have even put on the crown temporarily but that doesn't make you a king.

The knowledge now flows back in the reverse direction-through the levels of the mind, becoming Vidya Knowledge or Prajna helping to purify and cleanse the vasanas and desire/drives until one moves from Kevala to Sahaja.

Verbal non dualists and the ego...You're so vain you probably think this post is about you....

Verbal non dualists and the ego...You're so vain you probably think this post is about you....
by Tony O'Clery on Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 7:09am

The thief in the palace pretending to be the policeman, develops complete theories and dissertations that deny its own existence. For it feels worthwhile and its existence is validated, for it is the sutra that all non dual thoughts and ideas are strung on. It an even create a space of 'no thought' but it is observing itself quietly. Reverting back to the original illusory ego before thoughts were strung on it. It is close like deep sleep, which is actually a continuous thought of nothing. An apparent empty non dual space that to the uninitiated appears to be 'realisation' or the space between thoughts. Beyond deep sleep a true silence lies, but the sutra is lying there.not the true silence but...the ahamkara/ego...It is not true silence and loves the coarse sound of speech and words for then people cannot see the forest for the trees...............

We are looking for love in all the wrong places.

We are looking for love in all the wrong places.
by Tony O'Clery on Thursday, April 7, 2011 at 6:47am

We are looking for love in all the wrong places....like looking for lost glasses which all the time are on our heads..The human simian due to the distorted ego looks only for pleasure and validation of its existence..All have a love as that is what we are but it is veiled by desires, desire for pleasure in all forms...The animal looks for what it needs the human looks for what it doesn't need...We look for love in our children, wives, families and friends but we are competing with their own egos looking for pleasure also...all human love is conditional....even helping others is for oneself...for the ego gets pleasure from helping, and validation of its illusory existence.. Love is within,,,we can touch it through meditation..it is not outside for all love outside is tainted with the ego seeking pleasure....This why Bhakti is a more simpler path than Jnana or wisdom, as it projects the need on to a 'godform' that is outside but eventually becomes inside so to speak...We can only get transitory attachments outside as the other egos are also looking for love objectively, the ego looking for pleasure...It is hard for people new on the path especially to accept that most of the love they give and accept is really mostly attachment and seeking for pleasure.. Once we make the decision not to look for pleasure but to look within for Love...we are on the right track to real Love...

Verbal non dualists and the ego

Verbal non dualists and the ego...You're so vain you probably think this post is about you....
by Tony O'Clery on Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 7:09am

The thief in the palace pretending to be the policeman, develops complete theories and dissertations that deny its own existence. For it feels worthwhile and its existence is validated, for it is the sutra that all non dual thoughts and ideas are strung on. It an even create a space of 'no thought' but it is observing itself quietly. Reverting back to the original illusory ego before thoughts were strung on it. It is close like deep sleep, which is actually a continuous thought of nothing. An apparent empty non dual space that to the uninitiated appears to be 'realisation' or the space between thoughts. Beyond deep sleep a true silence lies, but the sutra is lying there.not the true silence but...the ahamkara/ego...It is not true silence and loves the coarse sound of speech and words for then people cannot see the forest for the trees...............

WEst versus east and how the greeks screwed up

WEst versus east and how the greeks screwed up.

Verbal Non dualists and neo advs are hooked into the Mind in a western way, as that is what they know...Blame the latter day ancient Greek philosophers that put so much importance to the mind, which to this day is the foundation of Western thought...In the East the mind is something to be discounted and is regarded as THE impediment, not something to be extolled but to be used as a thorn to remove a thorn. This is why these western non dualists work on integrating and balancing the mind.....and this is popular and possible for those who cannot imagine no mind....So they end up with a non dual mind but not liberation as that is beyond the mind....all they have is the thief pretending to be a policeman. The level of non duality they reach is not liberation and is false and deceiving and only leads to rebirth....



This is so ingrained in Western thought that it is impossible for neo advaitins and vndists or verbal non dualists...to proceed..As they do not take to sadhana and the removal of vasanas ......So they are caught on a cycle as they are not aware of where they are at and that drives, desires as vasanas are subconscious. It necessary to do some practise or sadhana to the lower mind...and subconscious can be purified............For if the mind is an orange then the daily mind and conscious mind are only the shine on the outside of the orange not even the skin...

This is why if you look on FB you will see many younger people caught up as vndists...as it is instant gratification, no digging is required and they have a mind that can start talking and expounding immediately.



The reason many true gurus or Sadgurus or Jnanis..use silence it to by-pass the mind, and use the more subtle. Humans have developed frontal lobes which are for speech and act as a hard drive to divert the mind to the material and daily modern life. Then words become the binary numbers of the frontal lobes and the circle goes on.

Ozymandias of Tripoli.

Ozymandias of Tripoli.

Ozymandias of old burns sands in Tripoli,
His minions cower from the western sky,
full of inheritors of the desert rats,

Always the same allies standing in karma,
for what they fought for and gave before,
generous with ancestors bloodlines again,

Old names harken back to battles old,
gone and fought for the same ideals,
Tobruk, Benghazi, El Alemain, Tripoli,

The desert sand is stained with empires,
Carthage, Rome, and 7th Army versus Afrika Corps,
Aussie, Brit,Indian, American, French again.

advaita without actual experience .Ramana

55 Therefore, one who talks advaita without actual experience of that truth is just the same as a dvaitin [a dualist]. Neither speech nor mind has any access to that supreme state. He that abides in that state has no doctrine whatever.Ramana.



This is a repost as it puts in a nutshell all the neo advaitins, verbal non dualists, now and awareness people....That without nirvikalpa samadhi they of course are still dualists no matter what they say and how clever they are.Tony

Ibn El-Arabi of Spain

Namaste,



Before I got into Vedanta I was into Kabbalah, real -not madonna kind, and then Sufi Islam.. In fact when I started meditation I had a spirit guide....whether real or my subconscious I don't know...his name was Ibn El Rasa................and told me to take the middle way to start....So it was not a big jump when I started reading Vedanta...........Ibn El-Arabi was one of my favourites.....Tony



Ibn El-Arabi of Spain instructed his followers in this most ancient dictum (Shah 85):



There are three forms of knowledge.



The first is intellectual knowledge, which is in fact only information and the collection of facts, and the use of these to arrive at further intellectual concepts. This is intellectualism.

Second comes the knowledge of states, which includes both emotional feeling and strange states of being in which man thinks that he has perceived something supreme but cannot avail himself of it. This is emotionalism.

Third comes real knowledge, which is called the Knowledge of Reality. In this form, man can perceive what is right, what is true, beyond the boundaries of thought and sense.

Scholastics and scientists concentrate upon the first form of knowledge. Emotionalists and experientalists use the second form. Others use the two combined, or either one alternatively. But the people who attain to truth are those who know how to connect themselves with the reality which lies beyond both these forms of knowledge. These are the real Sufis, the Dervishes who have Attained.

The lonliness of the spiritual distance runner...I did not come to bring peace-Jesus..

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)



Jesus is talking as The Self here of course....



It is said Peter's wife threw him out when he followed Jesus...and you will find the Sage is not out there looking for crowds to speak.to..for it is the opposite or antithesis of what normal people want and like...It is negating everything they stand for...that is why many like to listen to people who entertain their minds with verbal non dual speak as it is a diversion temporarily to their material lives and beliefs. It is just entertainment...They can pick it up or put it down...true spirituality cannot be ..................



This lonliness is exploited by fraud gurus like guru jaggi vasudev of the isha foundation, sathya sai baba of sai baba org,sri bagavan of the oneness university,sri sri ravisankara,etc etc..They provide a support network to keep their duped devotees in a cocoon...but never was a Sage like Ramana or Niz that did this....they should be the measuring rod...not all these scumbag frauds..Their vibrations are impure and so are their staff and they expose the new devotees to these in the activities of service or so called yoga etc.....

Reminiscences of Sri Bhagavan Referring to the Self and the Lokas

http://www.arunachala.org/newsletters/2011/?pg=mar-apr#article.1

Reminiscences of Sri Bhagavan
Referring to the Self and the Lokas
By Sri Krishna Bikshu

IN spite of being in the universal state of realized identity, Bhagavan recognised the contingent reality of higher states equal to that of this mundane state. This was shown in the case of Venkata Sastri, one in the group of devotees who put to Bhagavan the questions recorded in Sri Ramana Gita.

This devotee had been ill for a long time and, expecting a near demise, he took sannyasa. Venkata Sastri sat fully conscious to the last as death was approaching, repeating the pranava (OM mantra) in an audible voice and from time to time reporting to those around him the staged withdrawal of the prana until, with his last utterance, the prana finally departed. This was reported to Bhagavan who said: "Is that so? In that case he will go, according to the Sastras, to Brahma Loka and abide there till the end of Brahma's cycle when he, together with Brahma, will merge in the formless infinity of Nirguna. Yes, Venkata Sastri must have gone to Brahma Loka. You can tell his people that I said so." What further proof is needed that Bhagavan did not regard the higher worlds as mere mirages?

To deny the truth of the lokas and their lords, which is proclaimed with a hundred voices by the Sruti, the Upanishads and all other scriptures is to deny the obvious. I have also heard Bhagavan say: "It is neither necessary nor possible for the body to have realization. I have at this moment twenty different bodies working in twenty different lokas, so if one of them suffers am I to grieve? I am not the body. One who considers himself the body may grieve, but how should I?"

On a different occasion we put the same question to Bhagavan, asking how he could exist in a number of lokas at the same time and he said that one could have as many bodies as he wished if he had the necessary power of yoga, adding: "Have you not read that at the time of Rasa Leela Sri Krishna assumed 16,000 bodies at the same time?"

Such statements by Bhagavan affirm the existence of a number of lokas or planes of existence of which he was aware but we are not. They also show that he could assume individual form in them as in this world. Advaitic purists may be shocked at this, saying that the scriptures say: "He is One." But that refers only to the universal state. Everyone is the same in essence on the plane of Paramartha, but that refers to fundamental, universal Reality. On the planes of empirical reality we have to note the existence of multiplicity. That is why Jesus could say: "I and my Father are One". They were separate on the empirical or manifested plane, since he had a body and the Father had not, but they were One in essence.

Some theoretical Advaitins hold that after realization even the notion of multiplicity no longer exists. They say that once a rope which was mistaken for a snake is known to be a rope that there can no longer be the illusion of its being a snake. But another school holds that even after realization the appearance of manifestation remains although it is known to be illusory. They cite the appearance of mother-of-pearl. There is no silver in it, but even though one knows this the silvery appearance remains. I have heard Bhagavan confirm this view.

We must remember that the lokas are empirical realities no more real than this world of ours but also no less real. Bhagavan confirmed this when a group of disciples from Tiruchirapalli asked him whether Siva and the other Gods and their heavens really exist. "Do you exist?" he retorted. They replied that they did, and he said: "Then in the same way they do too."

It was always to be observed that Bhagavan was against intellectual discussions about personalities or about his individual nature since he was setting before his devotees the highest goal of pure formless Being. How are we to understand activity on the part of one who abides in the state of Brahman? The Sruti says: "He who knows Brahman becomes Brahman." This implies that if it be the Saguna Brahman or personal God that he knows he will merge in the personal God, but if it be the Nirguna Brahman or the Absolute, then he will merge in That. Furthermore, Brahman is declared to be unmoving, unconditioned and inactive. How is this to be reconciled with the idea of His manifestation as an individual performing the work of such, whether in this one world or in many?

The writer's brother, Venkateswar, who wrote a life of Bhagavan in Hindi, once asked Bhagavan himself: "Swami, I see you doing work but I know that the scriptures say that the Jnani becomes one with Brahman and is non- dual. How are these two things to be reconciled?"

Bhagavan gave him the long, deep, concentrated look so familiar to his devotees and then said slowly and clearly: "Suppose I could explain this to you in words, are you in a state to understand it?"

My brother pondered for a minute and then had to confess that he was not. The activity of one beyond the range of words and thoughts is obviously not to be understood by a mind confined to them. This is a mystery that can only be unraveled by experience. Some say that it is all leela, others that it is maya, but both these explanations are just words; and words, having been formed after creation, can never go back to their source which is before creation and on a plane above them.

On another occasion a visitor named Amrutananda wrote on a piece of paper the first half of a verse. This ran: "Who is this Ramana, famed for his graciousness, who lives in Arunachala Cave? Is he Vararuchi or Siva or Vishnu or Dakshinamurti? I want to know the eminence of this Guru." Now the question is not about the essential nature of the guru but about a Ramana living in a cave on Arunachala. Amrutananda left the paper with Bhagavan and went out. When he returned he found it completed by Bhagavan with the words: "Ramana is the Supreme Spirit (Paramatma) who, in the form of Knowledge, abides in the heart-cavern of every person, from Vishnu downwards. If you come to the heart with the mind melting in love and see with the eye of wisdom this will be plain to you." He is not speaking here of Ramana as an individual but of the essential nature of Ramana.
(This and the previous article are taken
from the July 1965 (Vol.2, No.3) issue of "The Mountain Path" journal.)

उरल

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Attachment is a false version by the ego-jiva

Attachment is a false version by the ego-jiva of what true Bhakti is...it is the innate desire to become the Sakti, that we are.We should love other beings for the Self's sake not our sake or it causes both joy and pain,,,,and not just bliss,,and peace.

The pain of separation from the Self caused by vasanas is what causes attachment to anything but...the Self ;For the Ego is in love with itself alone...

We don't clean the Vasanas so we cannot see The Self so we look for the Self everywhere else...like looking for glasses which are already on one's head...we go outwards instead of inwards.------We look through a glass darkly.

This is the cause of all pain and fear-- the individual ego, which innately wants to survive but at the same time is suffering because of the pangs of separation.Its own vasanas prevent it from realising the Self and it realises that only the Self or a Mukta Guru can kill the ego...A totally purified mind or vijnanamayakosa is required....

The tanha or thirst for existence is a distorted attempt at the immortality and peace of the Self...It is always the Self looking for the Self the little I looking for the I-I. It is the fear associated with the Ego-Ahamkara that also created an impediment,,,for fear is the original vasana of the ego..so the fear and thirst are what cause the separation so to speak.It is an inbuilt survival instinct layered on top of the fear-ego. Whilst the ego exists in ahamkara it will distort everything into building the phantom that it is.

Even the attachment to false teachers and charlatans is part of this searching for what we already are. For we are searching for The Self...

Attachment is also the Primal desire of the Universe's, outward expression, inward desire, and energies of attraction, repulsion and balance. Springing from Prakriti or creative potentiality then repeating the cycle.

Outward instead of Inward but are all dimly aware that all is one and we are The Self. This allows as The Self to see and experience the illusion----but not to realise it. There is no beginning to the Ego but an end to localised consciousness.

It is difficult to figure out but you can look for the 'I' and find it is not there.
This takes the mind to its source as a result. Once the source of attachment is found attachment ends for there is nothing to be attached to...To What?...There is only the 'I-I'.

The further from the ground the more diluted and localised the consciousness becomes. Until it can only hold on to its own local construct; It is only aware locally like a whirlpool in the ocean not being aware of the ocean...
The mind follows its own creation outwards as long as there is desire for outward expression, as a driving force.

Consciousness seems to dilute itself apparently into composite illusory parts.

Awareness means different things.

Awareness means different things...in ordinary terms with spirituality it means the Ego is observing its own mind---the sutra string is observing the beads of thought on its own string.It may even observe the rise and falling of thoughts but it is not liberation, thousands of people have done Vipassana course in 'concentration' essentially but they are not liberated...the ego is still there...Goenka was far more advanced than the present proponents and teachers of 'now' and 'awareness'. Who in most cases seem to the blind leading the blind as Ramana said.

Real awareness is The Self and can only be reached through a minimum of Kevala NirVikalpa Samadhi.....Although various experiences of the instrument of the Self/Sakti ie...Prana can be felt on the way up and down so to speak..Sometimes I have woken in this state, after apparently waking directly from the deep sleep state and not tallying in the dream state...Many people or mystics also may experience Savikalpa Samadhi but that is still with in illusion,,,albeit instruments of the Self..This the ecstasy of all the mystics, Christian, Sufi, Yogi and all...

Many are teaching 'awareness' but it is not different from the normal preparation for meditation, concentration, withdrawal of senses, one pointedness and finally meditation. So this awareness or power of now is all but preliminary exercises in yoga leading to meditation for some people...True meditation is always beyond the mind...it is within The Self itself.

What is not taught even though donations of money,services,books and dvds are sold by these new teachers teaching the 'easy way'; Is the fact that subconscious drives, desires and impediments have to cleansed from the subconscious mind or in sanskrit--the vasana citta...These according to Ramana can only be removed by practise and meditation. Grace or the Self is also involved but the amount of Grace available is in direct proportion to the amount of vasanas, obscuring that Grace are removed.

The vasanas are ingrained in the mind and species mind particularly and go back through all the tendencies the entity had in all its lives as and animal or a plant. Some of these are violent and hard to control, some are otherwise, but in humans the misuse of a more developed intellect has a result of making all these vasanas available and active in the mind, whereas in an animal the instinct dominates and nothing is out of season or dharma as it is in the ego of humans...Vasanas are also added to in this life by over satisfying natural desires and eating meat, absorbing all the vibrations from the animal and conflicting in the mind..

These vasanas are also connected to the emotions, with which it shares the subconscious mind, and direct throught the autonomous nervous system and subtle mind, energies to various organs such as the sex organs and others..Once the energy has moved to a particular organ it is hard to reverse...All thoughts and drives are ultimately subliminal and the conscious person is mostly unaware of them, although some may be available on the dream plane. Without dealing with these almost 'Freudian' conditions and vasanas with practise and meditation, no amount of non-dual conscious thinking and mind will succeed and those selling this idea or misguieded or are charlatans..

'At the end of the Ramayana,' he said,

'At the end of the Ramayana,' he said, 'all the animals who had helped Ram to win the war were given rewards. The monkeys were all told that they could go to a monkey heaven. Now, what is heaven to a monkey? Vast quantities of food, lots of fighting, and limitless sex. So, all the monkeys were reborn as human beings in the West in the twentieth century to experience their idea of "heaven". After some time, though, they all began to get bored of all this excess. One by one, they all started coming back to India because they wanted to find Ram and be with him again.'NIZ

I cannot tell you about enlightenment

I cannot tell you about enlightenment as I am not enlightened....I cannot tell you about beyond it all as there is 'nothing' to experience...Can you describe your deep sleep even.....I cannot describe or right books on NirVikalpa Samadhi.
Material non-duality is not hard to grasp....can you grasp the big bang? Then you know all is one materially.
Put your 500mmX microscope glasses on and see nothing but energy soup all one unified field...take them off and see 'duality' put them back on see non duality...Now that saves time in buying books and listening to charlatans doesn't it,,lower than that we have the Heisenberg principle of uncertainty...Max Planck etc and not being to observe sub atomic particles with affecting their behaviour as we are observing ourselves...........There is only prana and karma in the universe..............
Beyond prana and karma....are the subtle fields and prakriti beyond all is meditation and realisation...
So why do we not take note of this non duality....The mind, thoughts prana and karma which bring the universe and everything into this illusionary manifestation...the disturbance of the gunas...or modes.

All thoughts we will ever have pre-exist us....Ego reaches out...

All thoughts we will ever have pre-exist us....Ego reaches out...


All thoughts we will ever have pre-exist us....they are part of the species mind and universal mind...our ego just reaches out and grabs an appropriate thought at the time................And the ego itself is just a thought, a basic thought or origination without qualification.



We and everything is a stream of thought....only.....and that is in illusion. The Universes are in the mind also...



However even granting some validity to the mind , which is essentially a bundle of thoughts, there are no original thoughts that haven't been thought before, in the aeons of time...So the Ego, which is the sutra to string the thoughts on identifies with the thought it desires and then we have thought association...it is this association of thoughts that we call mind....and it is what gives so called individuals their personalities, desires and impulses...............These impulses and thoughts become deep seated Vasanas in the subconscious mind or vasana citta.....They are an impediment to realisation and have to be removed so the illusion of Ego is all that is left.....and it will be found that the individual has disappeared along with the sutra of thoughts...and all that stands is The Self or Big I Am, which in itself is an illusion also....However The Self itself must remove the last vestige of mind or the pure ego...Ahamkara...as it is an illusion projected by The Self itself....The Self can shine forth after Vasanas are removed.....However most will need an outer Guru as well, to kill the Ego.....Unless one has a purified vijnanamayakosa and is on the verge of realisation as Ramana Maharshi was....and only need one more life to realise the illusion. The Phantom cannot kill itself....it is not its own dream so to speak.



So it is not enough to add to the sutra of ego more thoughts of non duality...as they just add to the total. The Ego doesn't care what kind of thoughts they are, dual or non dual it doesn't discriminate it is just more fodder, more thoughts. That is why meditation and sadhana or practise are necessary to remove the subconscious vasanas that support the illusion of ego..not more thought to reinforce it.



Otherwise one could end up with a complete mind full of non dual thoughts but continually reincarnating....due to the subconscious mind which is called the Vasana Citta in Sanskrit anyway..

Clear and Present real danger of इनेक्स्पेर्ट Guru/Teacher with no training ...

An untrained or inexpert guru/teacher can be a real and present physical danger. I have seen it happen so I do not talk from theory or clever hypothesis..
When I first got on the Yoga Path it was almost by 'accident'. I had been reading and following all kinds of spirituality, when one day on Boxing Day 1985...I was in Sears looking at the $1. books and in there was a beautiful book on yoga...with positons, mantras, meditation, breathing and concentrations...It was obviously not a $1 clearance book...'Richard Hittleman's'30 day yoga meditation plan'.1978..Bantam Books. At this time I knew nothing about yoga and meditation, and was a alcoholic. I started the exercises and surprisingly I found it understandable and natural to me. So I was off doing the meditation exercises and the breathing/pranayama excercises. I found it very relaxing and I did it the same time everyday..My drinking became more controlled and within three months stopped altogether. One day as I sat cross legged on the floor doing the exercises a sudden surge of energy hit me in the chest and knocked me on my back. I was shocked and thought I must have done something wrong...I didn't know it at the time but this was the Kundalini-Prana rising and cleansing...I could feel the energy after this in meditation and still do...I also was reading the Sufis at the time.....and had this imaginary guide Ibn El Rasa who used to tell me to take the middle way.He was always there in my mind when I prepared for meditation...or what I took to be meditation at the time--concentration.

I did another trip to Australia at this time...and ran into a talk given by a man called Sadguru Butler from Hawaii....it was free and in a large Hotel Hall. I was reading about the Huna at the time and had read all of Max Freedom Long's books, so I asked him a few questions but he couldn't answer them. Anyway he gave out a picture of Krishna to everyone, the one with the deer and I still have it. I was still doing my yoga exercises and meditation everyday but I had a feeling to learn more about this philosophy. So I went to the Adyar Bookshop and bought the Bhagavad Gita and The Upanishads---Penguin Version..This essentially started my path in Vedanta, reading everything Sankara, Texts, Upanishads, and as much as I could find. I ended up in my ignorance following a fake guru, but luckily for me within 18 months I found 'Be as you are' by David Godman in the library and took it out several times until I bought my own version. I was au fait with the sanskrit and concepts now but the non-duality and Advaita of it all took me some time to absorb properly. So even though I followed the fake guru Sai Baba for 15 years, even becoming an office holder, the philosophy I was learning on the side was Ramana and Vedanta...This really saved me.....As I knew of people that had lost their lives or committed suicide around this organisation, but I was unstable -far from it.I had strange things happening at my house as well...strange appearances not only to me but to my wife as well. One one day Ramanavami Day....the incense we used for our home Bhajan formed three perfect concentric circles, which it had done often before. I thought it was just the type of incense but on this day it did that and then unraveled itself and formed a perfect Sanskrit 1....Myself and the kids all saw it and it was only when I was describing it at the 'Temple' that they told me incense cannot do that as it would break and crumble....One pointedness was apparently the message...
Anyway later on another trip to Australia....(I moved a lot between both countries)I knew a person that had been reading all the Brunton books and trying all kinds of meditation at home, as he was out of work at the time...He had no guru,,,,or teacher and unfortunately he became mentally unbalanced or 'went round the twist' as his wife said...

Another time I was meditating and I ended up in a completely 'dark' place or plane, a plane of nothing just me the observer of it..It was pretty scary and if I hadn't of known some mantras and gurus....I may have been stuck there, as I couldn't wake up so to speak...As it happened I managed to return from this non-dual plane, and I changed my concentration method in meditation afterwards.........always preparing well with mantras and bhajan music and doing japa as a preliminary...There were others who I knew who were unstable and doing pranayama, whether they were like that prior to the pranayama or afterwards I don't know...

The lesson to me was that it is dangerous to play around with the mind, meditation and pranayama unless you have a qualified guru. As it happened, my Guru who I didn't know at the time,...was with me at the mind level and beyond all the time....Also the fact that I was into Vedanta and being into all the Ancient Hindu practises helped me a lot..

Many of the non dual teachers, satsanghers, charlatans, donation takers etc...do not know or apparently care who they area talking to and so called 'teaching'. They never publish names of people who have had mental destabilisation or they blame it on pre-existing conditions...They can never tell what an unguided person may do when their mind is brought out of a lifetime of conditioning and belief systems.
It is highly dangerous a path to step on is the spiritual path without a guide. That is why so many of these verbose verbal non dualists are actually a real and present danger to some of the people they become the unrealised teachers of...In India it is a science hoary with age and timeless...all the kinks have been worked out thousands of years ago psychologically.. These new non dual charlatans probably haven't even qualified in western psychology never mind yoga psychology....Being a clever speaker and being clever with words is still in the conscious mind,,,,not in the subconscious mind or vasana citta....Also these non dual speakers bring this tendency with them from a previous lifetime, which shows it didn't work for them then either and won't now....It is superficial and knowing what a Kind is doesn't make one a King.....and it can be very dangerous to others. Who may become mentally unstable and even commit suicide.......I say this as I know about such events......Om Namah Sivaya ..Tony.

Papaji said his own disciple-teachers,mooji, gangaji etc, were not even temporarily enlightened.MY VIDEO

Papaji said his own disciple-teachers,mooji, gangaji etc, were not even temporarily enlightened.MY VIDEO


Namaste, Mooji is mentioned a lot...here is Papaji's opinion of him....



On my video I quoted Papaji the guru of cohen, gangaji, mooji etc.............I was not stating my own belief but Papaji's own statements to David Godman...I mention neo- advaitins and meat eaters like Mooji..who is famous for his 'lazy man's road to enlightenment' video on youtube. If you look you will see nervousness before he speaks and realises he has the crowd,,,only egos get nervous...My contention with the neo advaitins is that they essentially teach that sadhana to remove vasanas is not really necessary....although Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi did sadhanA before and after Moksha...........The Mundakya Upanishad says it is better to read the Upanishads and follow the teachings of real Gurus or Muktas..THAN FOLLOW NON REALISED TEACHERS...that is my advice and what I follow....I only know two muktas on the planet and they are Sr Mathru Sarada and Sri Lakshmana Swamy...both in the Ramana line..Also a death experience is necessary before complete realisation.... What I am saying is that many so called teachers and self-styled gurus are superflous--just entertainment............Tony





Papaji made it clear in the book "Nothing Ever Happened"--David Godman, that those he sent to

teach not only are not enlightened, they are not even temporarily enlightened.

#1. When asked about those he sent to teach, Papaji said that the purpose was to

have them point the way to Lucknow, not to pose as awakenened teachers.

#2. Papaji said that many can fool others into thinking they are liberated but

they are the false coin.

#3. When asked about the experiences that so many people had in Lucknow, he said

they were false experiences.... See More

#4. When asked, "Why did you give them false experiences?" he said to get the

leeches off my back.

#5. Papaji said he met only two Jnani's in his lifetime. One was Ramana

Maharshi. The other was a man who appeared from out of the jungle into the town

of Krishnagiri.

#6. Ramana Maharshi said that there is a false sense of liberation that

aspirants reach that very few ever go beyond.



Papajis sent out disciple-teachers include ..Mooji, Gangaji, Cohen and a whole host of neo advaitins ...These are all small fry in comparison to Nithyananda and Sai Baba.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1bpd8N_5Y&feature=channel



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eIq5-f26QE&feature=channel

-Papaji-In fact, he stated, the Westerners never requested nor received true teachings; what they received, he recounted, were “lollipops for the ignorant” which he dispensed to them. He called the Western teachers “fake coins, which glittered like gold but have no real value.” Nobody, Papaji claimed, was “worthy to receive his final teachings.”-

Letter to a neophyte sadhaka

Letter to a neophyte sadhaka..
by Tony O'Clery on Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 10:57am

That is very good....but my advice to you and take it as you want...is that you are at the cross-roads...I talk from experience as I am old man hahaha. You have an excellent grip on the non dual mentality and how it all works in the mind. Which is not ultimately progress but intellectualisation, Although ordinary people will find it impressive and stimulating,,,I have been at the spiritual search for many years....26 years at least into Hindu thought and philosophy...However you both brought these tendencies with you from a previous incarnation, which indicates that they alone did not work for both of you...as you are still here...Reincarnation exists and is as real as you are...once one has cleansed the vasanas, desires and tendencies from the subconscious mind...one can be open to the Self and liberation...As Maharaj said ' man needs oxygen, water and sex to survive as a human. The sex vasana/desire is the last to go as it goes directly agains the move of liberation and meditation, which is a withdrawal of the senses withing. Sex is the creative impulse and can only be linear and outward, not inward, and is the last vasana or impediment to liberation to go..Mahatma Ghandi had a strong struggle with it.

Oxygen and Water or food are vasanas that are not an impediment, they are a natural vasana or need...Many yogis in India and elsewhere can do without food....and live on Prana...as Blessed Theresa Newman did in Europe...as retold by Swami Yogananda...She lived on prana energy from sunlight...One of the dangers and impediments to liberation is the impulse to teach...and get 'donations' for survival...or even worse like Tolle and the neo advaitins turn it into a business...The best message on Liberation, was by Jesus, Buddha, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, Lakshmana Swami...Saradamma etc...who were all renunciants, and not given to great activity..or piling writings upon writings...Jesus wrote in the dust with a stick, the others scribbled aphorisms and poems on bit of paper...There are two living Jnanis or liberated one living in Tiru right now....in the line of Ramana...but they are hard to get to these days as they avoid the intellectual discussion of the mind which is ultimately unreal...Lakshmana teaches at a much subtler level in silence...as the Self.





Look at the eyes....there is not time or space for a Mukta...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-BeVGCINic



This is the reason I don't write books on spirituality.I would be the blind leading the blind...I comment and write here on FB as a diversion but out of the 500 MM people on FB there is not one liberated Mukta...



There are literally thousands of people in the spiritual business...and it is a multi billion dollar business...I myself was an officer in the sai baba sect...and they have over 3 billion dollars at last count some years ago...and he is a patent fraud...



In the end result we need to use a thorn to remove a thorn....and throw them both away not hang on.........Om Namah Sivaya Tony.